Nitrous express, when boost isn't enough...

[joefarmer]

Assume one .125 solenoid, one .136 jet, fifteen feet of -6an line (.312" ID) and 1000psi bottle pressure. How many equivalent lb/min of atmospheric air does this supply to the engine?

[paulb]

Originally Posted by joefarmer

Assume one .125 solenoid, one .136 jet, fifteen feet of -6an line (.312" ID) and 1000psi bottle pressure. How many equivalent lb/min of atmospheric air does this supply to the engine?

I want to tack a question on to Brandon's if I may.

If you have a .125 solenoid, and a .136 jet, would you get enough of a pressure drop at the solenoid to cause some of the nitrous to go to a gaseous state in the line to the jet? Would some of the cooling effect happen in the line instead of after the jet?

Paul

[NitrousExpress]

Originally Posted by joefarmer

Assume one .125 solenoid, one .136 jet, fifteen feet of -6an line (.312" ID) and 1000psi bottle pressure. How many equivalent lb/min of atmospheric air does this supply to the engine?

Two variables make this number not realistic or useful.

First being the fact without a push system, the pressure would not only decrease, it will also drop based on the volume of nitrous as well as external temperature. This means how much is actually in the bottle as well as the actual bottle size.

The other would be variations in the air. Altitude, humidity everything would have an effect.

I also assume you wanted the equivalence of the amount of oxygen the nitrous would flow vs the amount of oxygen flowed by X lb/min.

If you would like I can take a theoretical maximum of what the given nitrous setup would flow and given it in the expression of how many lb/min it would take to flow the equivalent amount of oxygen in a 0 DA environment.


Think about how well Nitrous/FI cars do in High altitude areas. The atmospheric air is thin, but the nitrous stays the same.

[NitrousExpress]

Originally Posted by paulb

I want to tack a question on to Brandon's if I may.

If you have a .125 solenoid, and a .136 jet, would you get enough of a pressure drop at the solenoid to cause some of the nitrous to go to a gaseous state in the line to the jet? Would some of the cooling effect happen in the line instead of after the jet?

Paul

You certainly can.

In a word. Yes. Any expansion area through out a system will cause that. This will cause some of the cooling to take place there.

Without making a sales pitch, thats the reason we spent all the time and R&D to make solenoids and a bottle valve with the best flow path and least amount of expansion area we could. The lightning series are a very neat design.

[MDW]

Originally Posted by NitrousExpress

We called but apparently did not leave a message. The unit was no good. Let me know what you would like to do.

I know its no good or I woudnt have sent it in.
Can it be fixed is what I want to know?

[DIESEL_POWER]

Or you could be smart and use a NANO Nitrous system, the Bottle PSI becomes a guarantied constant psi across the whole run. One less variable, and no tune changes. Only power increases.

We worked with the development on this since late 2006. it works very well, no issue's. Good for .50 LBS per second before any psi drop is seen.

A new higher flow valve is being developed right now, it sould support about 2LBS a second!!

Nano: Nitrous on Steroids!

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by joefarmer

Assume one .125 solenoid, one .136 jet, fifteen feet of -6an line (.312" ID) and 1000psi bottle pressure. How many equivalent lb/min of atmospheric air does this supply to the engine?

Why use a jet that is bigger than the solonoid orfice? There is no sence in that. IMO that some of your set up should be reconfigured. starting with the line lenght.

[JQmile]

Originally Posted by DIESEL_POWER

Why use a jet that is bigger than the solonoid orfice? There is no sence in that.

If I remember right, it has something to do with the nitrous expanding in the line after the solenoid; as in you can run a bigger jet at the nozzle, and it will still flow more than a jet that's the same size as the solenoid orifice. At least that's what my memory rolodeck tells me.....I remember reading that a long time ago somewhere.

[joefarmer]

Originally Posted by NitrousExpress

Two variables make this number not realistic or useful.

First being the fact without a push system, the pressure would not only decrease, it will also drop based on the volume of nitrous as well as external temperature. This means how much is actually in the bottle as well as the actual bottle size.

The other would be variations in the air. Altitude, humidity everything would have an effect.

I also assume you wanted the equivalence of the amount of oxygen the nitrous would flow vs the amount of oxygen flowed by X lb/min.

If you would like I can take a theoretical maximum of what the given nitrous setup would flow and given it in the expression of how many lb/min it would take to flow the equivalent amount of oxygen in a 0 DA environment.


Think about how well Nitrous/FI cars do in High altitude areas. The atmospheric air is thin, but the nitrous stays the same.

Assume a NANO system. lbs/min of air isn't affected by humidity or altitude. A pound of air is a pound of air at sea level or in Denver. I'd be interested in seeing the theoretical maximum.

[OT-OF-Here]

Originally Posted by DIESEL_POWER

Or you could be smart and use a NANO Nitrous system, the Bottle PSI becomes a guarantied constant psi across the whole run. One less variable, and no tune changes. Only power increases.

We worked with the development on this since late 2006. it works very well, no issue's. Good for .50 LBS per second before any psi drop is seen.

A new higher flow valve is being developed right now, it sould support about 2LBS a second!!

Nano: Nitrous on Steroids!

Do they have the whole kit thingy for Diesels? I didn't see a dry setup? Boost controller? Do you have pics for nozzel placements? PM with prices if you know for the complete setup. Sounds like you work with them closely.

Tks.

Pat

[joefarmer]

Originally Posted by OT-OF-Here

Do they have the whole kit thingy for Diesels? I didn't see a dry setup? Boost controller? Do you have pics for nozzel placements? PM with prices if you know for the complete setup. Sounds like you work with them closely.

Tks.

Pat

You can add this to your existing Nitrous Express kit.
Nano: Nitrous on Steroids!

[NitrousExpress]

Originally Posted by DIESEL_POWER

Or you could be smart and use a NANO Nitrous system, the Bottle PSI becomes a guarantied constant psi across the whole run. One less variable, and no tune changes. Only power increases.

We worked with the development on this since late 2006. it works very well, no issue's. Good for .50 LBS per second before any psi drop is seen.

A new higher flow valve is being developed right now, it sould support about 2LBS a second!!

Nano: Nitrous on Steroids!

Since were being smart, Nano isn't an nitrous system, its a push system. Hence,

Originally Posted by NitrousExpress

First being the fact without a push system

Also using a traditional bottle, Nano will not support .5 pounds per second of nitrous use with zero pressure drop.

We have been helping NANO since the beginning. We have several in shop. We also built a push port into our valves to help with flow from a push style system. The port is larger and will help the "pusher" keep up.

[NitrousExpress]

Originally Posted by MDW

I know its no good or I woudnt have sent it in.
Can it be fixed is what I want to know?

I wasen't clear. I was trying to say the unit was not repairable.

[NitrousExpress]

DIESEL_POWER -

That last post was pretty condescending. I took your post as fairly rude and that was why I answered it in that "tone". With everything that is going on I would much rather not argue with someone who is knowledgeable and respected. I have gone through some of your posts and agree with your opinions on many things. I think I miss took a few posts here as challenging if I knew what I was talking about or not. Maybe they were. But I am very much wanting to be a part of this growing niche of the sport. Believe it or not, I was actually looking up on craigslist to see what I could grab a 12v cummins for. I would love to grab a truck to start sinking my teeth into that could also pull my ls1 car around.

What I'm getting at is that I am here for good tech information and to help the scene. Im not a walking billboard or here to belittle any one else on this site. I have zero doubt there are many members here with more knowledge than me on diesels. I hope to help and learn from this entire board. Thanks.

Graham@NX

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by NitrousExpress

DIESEL_POWER -

That last post was pretty condescending. I took your post as fairly rude and that was why I answered it in that "tone". With everything that is going on I would much rather not argue with someone who is knowledgeable and respected. I have gone through some of your posts and agree with your opinions on many things. I think I miss took a few posts here as challenging if I knew what I was talking about or not. Maybe they were. But I am very much wanting to be a part of this growing niche of the sport. Believe it or not, I was actually looking up on craigslist to see what I could grab a 12v cummins for. I would love to grab a truck to start sinking my teeth into that could also pull my ls1 car around.

What I'm getting at is that I am here for good tech information and to help the scene. Im not a walking billboard or here to belittle any one else on this site. I have zero doubt there are many members here with more knowledge than me on diesels. I hope to help and learn from this entire board. Thanks.

Graham@NX

Hey no problem, i know the keyboard makes it hard to fully understand the thought from the OP, but i was just stating that the Nano system makes nitrous sytems better, because of almost no nitrous psi drop and way better consistency and more HP due to those differences alone. , if you have worked with them than you know this to be true, but i have accually dyno'ed and raced with there sytems for quite a while and i can honestly say that they work as advertised.

Nothing against your stuff, just saying that this kit makes it better.

[NitrousExpress]

Originally Posted by DIESEL_POWER

Hey no problem, i know the keyboard makes it hard to fully understand the thought from the OP, but i was just stating that the Nano system makes nitrous sytems better, because of almost no nitrous psi drop and way better consistency and more HP due to those differences alone. , if you have worked with them than you know this to be true, but i have accually dyno'ed and raced with there sytems for quite a while and i can honestly say that they work as advertised.

Nothing against your stuff, just saying that this kit makes it better.

I think NANO has its place. I just don't find it to be what it is hyped to be.

With correct tuning on multi stage systems, which have become even more prevalent with small tire classes becoming such a trend lately, I don't think NANO is worth the trouble or the weight in most cases.

On large single stage systems, pressure drop can be an issue especially if you are using 10# bottle vs a 15# bottle. Here is a place where the NANO can help with pressure drop.

Street cars make NANO really shine. The speed at which NANO gets a bottle to pressure and also being able to make repeated runs in quick secession make its a blast to have. Also going longer between fills is also a plus.

None of these will help with a track only car over having multiple bottles to switch out with after a pass.

This is just my opinion.

One more thing to add. We iced down a 10# bottle that was full. We quickly hooked the bottle up to a NANO and sprayed a 100 shot on a bolt on 3v mustang. It picked up 30hp over a full bottle with a heater. This is in Texas btw so the bottle was not heated much by the heater it was 9x degrees.

[baprewitt]

#2 = 5th place............. = 1st Place! hahaha

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by NitrousExpress

I think NANO has its place. I just don't find it to be what it is hyped to be.

With correct tuning on multi stage systems, which have become even more prevalent with small tire classes becoming such a trend lately, I don't think NANO is worth the trouble or the weight in most cases.

On large single stage systems, pressure drop can be an issue especially if you are using 10# bottle vs a 15# bottle. Here is a place where the NANO can help with pressure drop.

Street cars make NANO really shine. The speed at which NANO gets a bottle to pressure and also being able to make repeated runs in quick secession make its a blast to have. Also going longer between fills is also a plus.

None of these will help with a track only car over having multiple bottles to switch out with after a pass.

This is just my opinion.

One more thing to add. We iced down a 10# bottle that was full. We quickly hooked the bottle up to a NANO and sprayed a 100 shot on a bolt on 3v mustang. It picked up 30hp over a full bottle with a heater. This is in Texas btw so the bottle was not heated much by the heater it was 9x degrees.

i run one 15# bottle and nano, i push about 2.5 lbs of N2O thrugh 2 stages in a 1/8 mile, which is right at the valve flow limit for the nano system, we show about 25 psi drop across the whole run.( and that showed to be psi stabilization not a sustained drop)

No bottle heater and single 15# bottle set up can do that! I've tried it all.

Even with two 15# bottles you will get about 100 psi drop @ .50 lbs a second, AND the nano sytem is much lighter than two 15lbs bottles....

These are not labritory results, but instead real world results, from my own personal testing.

If i had bottle heaters to sell, i too would most likley be sideing with you 100%......

Next year things will be even better for nitrous users.

[NitrousExpress]

Originally Posted by DIESEL_POWER

i run one 15# bottle and nano, i push about 2.5 lbs of N2O thrugh 2 stages in a 1/8 mile, which is right at the valve flow limit for the nano system, we show about 25 psi drop across the whole run.( and that showed to be psi stabilization not a sustained drop)

No bottle heater and single 15# bottle set up can do that! I've tried it all.

Even with two 15# bottles you will get about 100 psi drop @ .50 lbs a second, AND the nano sytem is much lighter than two 15lbs bottles....

These are not labritory results, but instead real world results, from my own personal testing.

If i had bottle heaters to sell, i too would most likley be sideing with you 100%......

Next year things will be even better for nitrous users.

We have not seen the same in our testing. Although we did not do much testing with the 15# bottle. When used the 10# bottle with a another company's bottle we saw some pressure drop with shot sizes of over 300hp. I will get back to the shop on monday and try and post some more accurate numbers. Sorry I do not have them with me.

I don't own a laboratory or a Chemistry set, so what I post will be the results of our (Mine and NX) testing and the results of customer car's.

You think my opinion was based on me selling bottle heaters? I posted that street cars ( Larger customer base than track only cars ) are perfect for NANO. Then posted our results where we picked up 30hp with a NANO system.

Our Heater is very expensive. It is that way because we wanted to use the best stuff possible since so many people have issues with them or the flat out stop working. More than one customer has opted to buy cheaper alternatives rather than spend the coin on ours. As a result, we don't really sell many and we are ok with that. I am the last person to bias my opinion based on sales.

Thanks Graham@NX

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by NitrousExpress

We have not seen the same in our testing. Although we did not do much testing with the 15# bottle. When used the 10# bottle with a another company's bottle we saw some pressure drop with shot sizes of over 300hp. I will get back to the shop on monday and try and post some more accurate numbers. Sorry I do not have them with me.

I don't own a laboratory or a Chemistry set, so what I post will be the results of our (Mine and NX) testing and the results of customer car's.

You think my opinion was based on me selling bottle heaters? I posted that street cars ( Larger customer base than track only cars ) are perfect for NANO. Then posted our results where we picked up 30hp with a NANO system.

Our Heater is very expensive. It is that way because we wanted to use the best stuff possible since so many people have issues with them or the flat out stop working. More than one customer has opted to buy cheaper alternatives rather than spend the coin on ours. As a result, we don't really sell many and we are ok with that. I am the last person to bias my opinion based on sales.

Thanks Graham@NX

In the diesel world, we dont talk in the size of shots rated in HP, but i would like to know what that compares to, equal to say lbs per run, or lbs per second, in other words, you tested a 300hp shot, what lbs per second were you testing it at, what was the bottle temp and what size solonoid(s) were you useing, line size also comes into play as well, also each regulator can be set at a different psi,(static psi) what was yours set at?

Just trying to get a idea of what your seeing, because i have ran across a few bad regulator set ups in the past that did not work as they should, so if you not flowing at least .47 lbs per second, a bad regulator may be your issue.