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Old 05-25-2018, 09:43 AM   #1
Redrider2911

Name: Redrider2911
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Not running "Right"...

Over the winter I built an HE351ve with 64mm compressor and 64x70mm 10 blade turbine to swap out for my 60mm WH1C over s475. I also swapped my used Scheid lightning 5x18 injectors to a used pair of 5x16s built by Will before PDD was really going. I was trying to clean up idle haze for the cruise nights I go to in the summer. Truck seemed to run great; super quick spool, EGTs in check, normal amount of smoke, and boost was down to 65 from 80-85 (which was expected with the smaller injector).

Ever since I built this truck I would have a thick white haze cloud behind me on the way to work but then would not be there the next day. I attributed it to a failing 160 pump that had been racked and abused. Over a couple months of running my new setup, these days started to get more and more common until the truck always hazed a white cloud, cruising egts would be 1000 on flat ground and 1300 cruising up a little hill. I took the truck to the track the other day and ran a lousy 12.7 compared to my 11.8 last year with my previous setup. I figured the pump must have just gone completely out as I also developed a missfire.

So now over the last week I swapped out an unmolested, low mile 180 pump. I added my 4k gsk, 191 DVs, and my tuned AFC, fixed a couple exhaust leaks, then put everything back together at the same 23* timing (pin timed and then advanced 10* on the balancer). Off idle throttle response is much better, engine runs WAY smoother, and there is definitely more fuel available. BUT I'm still getting the same EGTs, cruising white cloud, and boost maxes at 60psi. It feels lazy from 10-40psi of boost too, where before I noticed the consistent white cloud I would have the ability to just slam the boost gauge over as soon as I got to about 15psi (even with the new turbo and injector setup).

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but hopefully someone could help me figure out what is going on.

Kris
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread

Last edited by Redrider2911; 05-25-2018 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:49 AM   #2
Redrider2911

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Things on my list to check in this order unless someone suggests otherwise.

Check that the valve lash hasn't tightened down
Check that the cam gear hasn't walked out
Clean and pop test of injectors
Compression. Though I find this unlikely as blowby is consistent with how its always been, and engine is just as hard to bar over.

I do not have ANY boost leaks. My charge piping to AW intercooler is short and all v bands with rubber gasket.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread

Last edited by Redrider2911; 05-25-2018 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:53 AM   #3
jasonc

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Sounds like a wastegate is leaking or something up with that secondary.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:08 AM   #4
Redrider2911

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc View Post
Sounds like a wastegate is leaking or something up with that secondary.
Its a vgt actuated with spring and 1.25" bore air cylinder hooked to drive pressure. Even set it to lock in place at various settings and no real change on the haze. I also took the turbo apart and double checked that the VGT arm is indeed moving the nozzle. With it set pretty tight, almost right before exhaust braking; boost is quick to come on and follow RPMs, but RPMs seem to climb slower than normal (plenty of smoke/fuel but not too much that its drowning). Max boost is 60psi with about 85-90psi drive. This is the WEIRD part. Boost and drive pressure climb pretty well hand in hand while cruising and mashing the pedal. BUT If I sit in neutral and free rev, boost gets to about 20-25 and drive pressure climbs instantly like crazy to 60psi. Isnt that not "normal"? I would think boost and drive would respond similarly even without the load...
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread

Last edited by Redrider2911; 05-25-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:09 AM   #5
Redrider2911

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Only other change was my transmission controller with line pressure raised from 160 to 190 and with the ability to adjust shifts, I have my shift RPM set a little lower than before.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:15 AM   #6
Redrider2911

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I guess another thing to add to the list to check and try adjusting is the MWE groove on the HE351ve... i had to make a custom insert since someone removed the silencer ring. Right now the MWE is set at about .100”
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:22 AM   #7
Redrider2911

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Another thought. What about turbo wheel speed/torque at the turbine vs boost pressure? Now that I think about it, I believe it ran better before I added the rubber gaskets on the V bands and I had a pretty decent boost leak on the high pressure charge pipe. But maybe that's just a coincidence...
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:05 PM   #8
Redrider2911

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Any ideas guys? Im hoping to race tonight and don't have much time after work to tear into this thing. Should I pull the air/water intercooler to get the valve covers off and check valve lash, or pull the timing cover off and check the cam gear? I pulled the front valve cover off on lunch since it was the only one accessible. Intake was .006 and exhaust was .016.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread

Last edited by Redrider2911; 05-25-2018 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:25 PM   #9
jasonc

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That lash is a little tight, not enough to cause your issue, but all it takes is one of the remainders to be tight and holding a valve from sealing tight to be your problem. Stay with 10/20
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:27 PM   #10
jasonc

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11.8 to 12.7 is a hundred hp or more, have you tried recently adjusting the vanes down tighter? If lash is good.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:28 PM   #11
jasonc

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Turbo vanes
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:29 PM   #12
Redrider2911

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Yea, its about what I set them at like 8 months go after my last retorque. Did a lot of reading and guys were noticing improvements from running tighter lash. The truck definitely felt better and spool was about 100rpm lower, so I left it.

If you only had time to check one thing, would you check lash or the cam gear? lol
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:30 PM   #13
jasonc

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Any heavy soot in the charge pipe would also be a clue.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:32 PM   #14
jasonc

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Why do you think cam gear, where you running stock or a bolt on retainer. Either way it's keyed, not gonna slip timing.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:33 PM   #15
jasonc

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Inj pump gear will slip, happens alot.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:34 PM   #16
Redrider2911

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc View Post
11.8 to 12.7 is a hundred hp or more, have you tried recently adjusting the vanes down tighter? If lash is good.
changes from the 11.8 to the 12.7, and almost all done at the same time.

Raised transmission line pressure from 160 to 180+
Reworked the valvebody, added direct shift solenoids, and tuned for a slightly lower shift RPM.
Swapped the 60mm WH1C for custom 64mm HE351ve
Added rubber gaskets on the v bands


And then now the 180 pump.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:39 PM   #17
Redrider2911

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I tightened the turbo to almost all the way down on lunch. A little bit before the exhaust brake function (this is where I believe I originally had it the first time out) and locked it in place. Spool up definitely felt a lot quicker from 10psi to 40psi. Max boost was still about 60-65psi with max drive of only 90psi. And still not cleaning up these 5x16s all the way.

Did I mention earlier that it only free revs to 3800rpm or so. It was the same with the 160. I remember when I first put the 4k GSK and valve springs in, it would free rev to like 4100. Valve float? It definitely doesn't pull in the upper RPMs like it used too, probably coincides with the max 60psi boost.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:40 PM   #18
Redrider2911

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Cam gear is on a keyway, yes. But the gears are helical cut... So if the gear slips out like a 1/4", that will effect cam timing. Correct? Stock cam, no retainer bolt.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:40 PM   #19
jasonc

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Assuming everything's healthy with the engine, secondary or pump issue.

Does it sound good in neutral and free revving? Will it rip right quick to 4k without popping?
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:44 PM   #20
Redrider2911

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc View Post
Assuming everything's healthy with the engine, secondary or pump issue.

Does it sound good in neutral and free revving? Will it rip right quick to 4k without popping?
3800, absolutely no popping. Clean black smoke, no grey or white. That's kind of the part that felt weird to me like I was saying. Free rev will bring boost to like 25-30psi and drive will shoot to 60psi(really driving the charger). That doesn't happen when doing a WOT pull. Drive will pretty consistently stay no more than 15-20 above boost until I hit that 60psi "wall".

I find it unlikely that it would be a pump issue when I just changed it out (even though it is used). This pump definitely feels a lot healthier, no gray smoke on acceleration like before and I can darn near black out an intersection now. (haven't adjusted the afc yet as Im trying to keep some things consistent).
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 94 12 valve. 47RH, low stall single disc converter. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. down to 60psi. Build Thread

Last edited by Redrider2911; 05-25-2018 at 03:53 PM.
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