Pump Timing, can someone clear this up for me? - Competition Diesel.Com

Ken in AZ · 10-09-2006, 01:54 AM

Alright using piers and dodgeram.org, they have their timing charts a little different, basically they say for the cpl 2175(the 215 pump) that 5.6mm is 16.0*
http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/timing.htm
or
http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechPTiming.htm

So, I measured mine today....a few different times to make sure I was doing it correctly....and I ended up at 7.06mm what would my timing be since my measurement is off the chart? I used the timing pin method if it makes any difference.

I am guessing it is close to 24* but that seems WAY high to me. I took my truck to the cummins shop here in phoenix and from stock timing, the tech said he bumped it a few degrees. My truck runs fine..great actually, just a bit of white smoke when it dips below 50degrees, but I figured it was due to the marine headgasket and not reshimming the injectors.

what do you guys think? is this right...am i doing something wrong?

Ken in AZ · 10-09-2006, 03:01 AM

snikies, is that good or bad?

Ken in AZ · 10-09-2006, 07:12 PM

It runs awesome now, would it be because it has the 4K GSK, does that make much difference?

It has been at that timing setting for over a year with no problems other than the stock head gasket blowing, but I attribute that to overboosting the stock turbo. The B1 has been in there ever since then and everything seems fine.

I'll see if I can get the timing tools this week and try to set it back when I do the injectors and see if that helps or hurts, but it honestly runs so good I don't want to touch anything.

If I did pull it back, I'd probably try to get it to 18* so I'm thinking plunger lift would be 6.1mm adding for the thicker headgasket?

thanks

Ken in AZ · 10-10-2006, 12:33 AM

All i've read was to use the thinnest washers available with the 370's

when you say there is a 10degree difference between the injectors....I get completely confused, is there another thread somewhere I can read up. I feel almost completely lost talking about this stuff.

Ken in AZ · 10-10-2006, 05:46 PM

so, even though I'm spinning 4K rpms, still set timing to be @ 13* for the 370's....got it

another question...kindof on the gears towards "you can give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he'll feed himself for a lifetime" Is there somewhere I can go to learn this stuff. Is there some sort of Injection manual I can obtain to read all about injection timing and how it affects performance, fuel economy, spray pattern vs bowl design?

I appreciate all your help Smokem, you rock

MR4WLR · 10-10-2006, 07:38 PM

Lots of technical info on The CumminsDatabase

Ken in AZ · 10-11-2006, 01:59 PM

Thanks, lots of info on Cumminsdatabase...I fell asleep reading it last night lol.

Where I want to take this truck is with the Water/Meth and 370's to the 500rwhp mark. No higher than 50psi on this B1. It's a street driven truck, unloaded 99% of the time, kindof a hot rod...just want it to be a fast fun truck that can surprise alot of people

(ps: I forgot to add the water injection into my signature)

Ken in AZ · 10-12-2006, 01:28 AM

The clutch is a champ right now, and I've dyno'd 400rwhp already(412 in 5th gear), but that was with the stock turbo before I blew the head gasket

I've done some full throttle runs...and it seems to be holding fine :crossing fingers: I just want an honest to goodness 450rwhp and I'll be happy, hell I might even be there right now, I'm just gonna slap in the 370's and set the timing at 18* and slap it on the dyno or take it to the track.

I've already trapped 92mph before the ATS manifold and plate at 3/4 forward. I picked up at least 20hp from the ATS peice, and depending on what HP calculator you use, a 6900lb truck that traps 92 makes between 390-420whp.

One thing I noticed after I swapped to the ATS is that with the BHAF I retained the factory filterminder, before it never moved...not even a milimeter, and directly after it pulled it down about a half centimeter. that tells me I'm sucking alot more air then before.

Ken in AZ · 10-12-2006, 08:03 PM

Is the 0.020" washers the thinest washer available?

So if I set it at 18* my cylinder pressure would be thru the roof? isn't is already thru the roof now with my timing at 24.5* would it be much difference?

I'm just afraid that I'll fall on my face after 3000rpm with the 4K kit with the timing that low, or is that something I don't have to worry about with the marine injector.

maybe I should just sell them and get a different injector to match my set-up

I hear all kinds of good things about NewEraDiesel and their EDM's which injector would you recomend to go with from them?

Ken in AZ · 10-12-2006, 11:42 PM

I haven't been able to find 90hp injectors, who carries them?

10-09-2006, 01:54 AM	#1
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	Pump Timing, can someone clear this up for me? Alright using piers and dodgeram.org, they have their timing charts a little different, basically they say for the cpl 2175(the 215 pump) that 5.6mm is 16.0* http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/timing.htm or http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechPTiming.htm So, I measured mine today....a few different times to make sure I was doing it correctly....and I ended up at 7.06mm what would my timing be since my measurement is off the chart? I used the timing pin method if it makes any difference. I am guessing it is close to 24* but that seems WAY high to me. I took my truck to the cummins shop here in phoenix and from stock timing, the tech said he bumped it a few degrees. My truck runs fine..great actually, just a bit of white smoke when it dips below 50degrees, but I figured it was due to the marine headgasket and not reshimming the injectors. what do you guys think? is this right...am i doing something wrong? __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-09-2006, 03:01 AM	#2
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	snikies, is that good or bad? __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-09-2006, 07:12 PM	#3
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	It runs awesome now, would it be because it has the 4K GSK, does that make much difference? It has been at that timing setting for over a year with no problems other than the stock head gasket blowing, but I attribute that to overboosting the stock turbo. The B1 has been in there ever since then and everything seems fine. I'll see if I can get the timing tools this week and try to set it back when I do the injectors and see if that helps or hurts, but it honestly runs so good I don't want to touch anything. If I did pull it back, I'd probably try to get it to 18* so I'm thinking plunger lift would be 6.1mm adding for the thicker headgasket? thanks __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-10-2006, 12:33 AM	#4
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	All i've read was to use the thinnest washers available with the 370's when you say there is a 10degree difference between the injectors....I get completely confused, is there another thread somewhere I can read up. I feel almost completely lost talking about this stuff. __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-10-2006, 05:46 PM	#5
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	so, even though I'm spinning 4K rpms, still set timing to be @ 13* for the 370's....got it another question...kindof on the gears towards "you can give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he'll feed himself for a lifetime" Is there somewhere I can go to learn this stuff. Is there some sort of Injection manual I can obtain to read all about injection timing and how it affects performance, fuel economy, spray pattern vs bowl design? I appreciate all your help Smokem, you rock __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-10-2006, 07:38 PM	#6
MR4WLR Name: MR4WLR Title: Just for the fun of it Status: Not Here Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Amity, OR Member`s Gallery Posts: 119	Lots of technical info on The CumminsDatabase __________________ Corey Ritter '04 Patriot Blue SRW 3500 QC 4X4 Laramie, 6spd, HO, Edge EZ, TST PowerMAXCR, Smarty, SPS 66, Rip's 4", AFE PG7 W/torque tube, F.A.S.S. 150, 4" Superlift, Ride Rite's w/onboard air, Line-X. Torklift camper tie downs, fuel vent mod, Buckstop/Warn 12,000 lb, MTL w/prolong in trans, Haisley DD. 68K and counting Hauls Lance "Lite" 1025 @4klbs 513 HP 1043 TQ Fast Specialties DDD 4-15-2006 TST-EZ stack Quickest 1/4 mile ET 13.949 @ 96 MPH @ PIR truck wieght 8400lbs Wifes truck '98 Intense Blue 12V QC LB 4X4 Auto NWDiesels.com NHRDA

10-11-2006, 01:59 PM	#7
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	Thanks, lots of info on Cumminsdatabase...I fell asleep reading it last night lol. Where I want to take this truck is with the Water/Meth and 370's to the 500rwhp mark. No higher than 50psi on this B1. It's a street driven truck, unloaded 99% of the time, kindof a hot rod...just want it to be a fast fun truck that can surprise alot of people (ps: I forgot to add the water injection into my signature) __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-12-2006, 01:28 AM	#8
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	The clutch is a champ right now, and I've dyno'd 400rwhp already(412 in 5th gear), but that was with the stock turbo before I blew the head gasket I've done some full throttle runs...and it seems to be holding fine :crossing fingers: I just want an honest to goodness 450rwhp and I'll be happy, hell I might even be there right now, I'm just gonna slap in the 370's and set the timing at 18* and slap it on the dyno or take it to the track. I've already trapped 92mph before the ATS manifold and plate at 3/4 forward. I picked up at least 20hp from the ATS peice, and depending on what HP calculator you use, a 6900lb truck that traps 92 makes between 390-420whp. One thing I noticed after I swapped to the ATS is that with the BHAF I retained the factory filterminder, before it never moved...not even a milimeter, and directly after it pulled it down about a half centimeter. that tells me I'm sucking alot more air then before. __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-12-2006, 08:03 PM	#9
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	Is the 0.020" washers the thinest washer available? So if I set it at 18* my cylinder pressure would be thru the roof? isn't is already thru the roof now with my timing at 24.5* would it be much difference? I'm just afraid that I'll fall on my face after 3000rpm with the 4K kit with the timing that low, or is that something I don't have to worry about with the marine injector. maybe I should just sell them and get a different injector to match my set-up I hear all kinds of good things about NewEraDiesel and their EDM's which injector would you recomend to go with from them? __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear

10-12-2006, 11:42 PM	#10
Ken in AZ Name: Ken in AZ Title: ill-tempered Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 358	I haven't been able to find 90hp injectors, who carries them? __________________ 98 12v 2wd, hurt B1, ATS mani 4" dp 5" single stack, custom plate, timing 22* 4GSK, Marine 370's, Marine HG .020" DevilsOwn Water/Meth inj, SBC 3250 12cb, Isspro 60psi and EGT, 3.54 powrlok dana 80, 285/65 18 front and 325/60 18 rear