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Old 02-14-2011, 12:46 PM   #1
high toned sob

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Old article, but useful for comparison 6.5td

Here is a good article from another forum about the 6.5 TD. Pretty good reading....



"The Duramax 6600's arrival in the fall of 2000, with its class-leading power and torque, created quite a buzz among Ford and Dodge owners. They immediately said that with modifications, their trucks could equal a "stock" Duramax 6600 powered GM pickup truck. Perhaps...

The concept for The Diesel Page 6.5TD Power Project came from this same thought process. That being, if you added the right equipment, the 6.5TD could provide competitive levels of performance. In 1999, we compared a properly equipped 6.5L Turbo Diesel to both a stock 1999 Dodge ISB Cummins and Ford Super Duty Powerstroke during our first annual Pull-Off, which included a 10,000-lb trailer and a 6% grade. This and other performance tests have proven that the 6.5 could compete while pulling heavy trailers, and could easily outrun a stock 1999 Ford & Dodge while running solo.

Note: The 6.5TD Power Project series began in late 1997, and was completed by mid 1999. At the time this series began, Ford & Dodge set the standards for diesel towing power, and many 6.5 owners were looking for ways to improve the towing performance of their GM trucks. The question we hoped to answer with this project back in 1997-99 was whether a properly equipped 6.5TD could provide towing performance comparable to a "stock" 1999 model-year 7.3L Ford Powerstroke and Dodge ISB Cummins. After more than seven years and 250,000 miles, I believe we've answered this and many other questions concerning power, performance and durability for a performance-modified 6.5L Turbo Diesel.


More of the full
story with photos and additional information about the 6.5L Turbo Diesel can
be found at: http://www.thedieselpage.com/finale.htm

Thanks to Jim Bigley for the Article.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:09 PM   #2
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WOW...who would think a 6.5L with only mild modifications....you know, new pistons and all, would run with stock trucks!!!

What comparison is this supposed to make?
Chris
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:22 PM   #3
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Hmmmm, interesting! I know for a fact that my '02 duramax (when stock) would out perform the same year powerstroke. Could someone help me understand the of the point of this comparison?
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:21 PM   #4
high toned sob

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At the end of the article it stated the benifits to the project. It's really not hard to rebuild one of these. Compare it to a BBC rebuild. You can build one for less than $1500.

I had my pistons cut to 18.1 compression by the local speedshop. Cost me $80.
I installed marine tips and set popoff pressure myself, cost me $75 for the Bosch tips.
I had $125 in rings.
I had $150 in a gasket kit.
I had $50 in the better updated headbolts.
I had $80 in all the bearings.
I had $40 in a pump kit and I bored out the plunger/more volume myself-free.
I had probably another $200 in misc.-balancer, WP, oil pump.
Even if you don't have anything in your shop, you can find intercoolers and better turbo's all day long for cheap, we all know that.

Add it up. If a guy has a NICE older truck that's paid for, who just wants a 275hp/450ft lbs. diesel, it's a good engine for that.

The point of this post was to help out in the future, for people asking how to get more. Instead of turning it into a engine swap thread. Not a
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83 Chevy 4x4 "the mighty 6.2" beater with a heater
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97 ram 2500 12 valve built auto 4x4 sclb
 
Old 02-14-2011, 02:32 PM   #5
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How long until the heads crack?

Chris
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:47 PM   #6
high toned sob

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600 View Post
How long until the heads crack?

Chris
True, that was a problem also. Mainly from overheating. Just like any engine that is abused. Put enough fuel and timing in anything and you'll hurt it. Take a natural engine, turn up the fuel, then LUG the shizz out of it for miles and miles in a RPM range where it can't get any air. See what happens. Even a turbo engine that can't provide enough air for all the fuel.
Fix the overheating, and you fix the cracking problem.

Besides that, they can be repaired cheaply. Weld them in, install new valve seats, and go.
All the ones I've seen with cracked heads have:

1. Had the fuel cranked, with nowhere near enough air to cool it down.
2. Been ran to death with little maintenance
3. Have no pyro
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98 QC 1 ton 4x4 12 valve
91 CC 1 ton 4x4 GMC, mechanical 6.0 swap
83 Chevy 4x4 "the mighty 6.2" beater with a heater
98 S10 blazer solid axle 6.5 project, turbo or super?
97 ram 2500 12 valve built auto 4x4 sclb
 
Old 02-14-2011, 02:52 PM   #7
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Put $1500 into a stock 12v and see what you get....500 hp and 1000+ tq numbers.

Stupid comparison. Either compare them all stock or all with the same amount invested.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:35 PM   #8
high toned sob

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
Put $1500 into a stock 12v and see what you get....500 hp and 1000+ tq numbers.

Stupid comparison. Either compare them all stock or all with the same amount invested.
Your right, then put $3500 into the trans after that. For $3500 you can buy a 4x4 6.5 truck, that for most people will get the job done.

The comparison wasn't to say that it's a better engine. The reason for
the build was to show that a "old technology" engine can run with decent numbers...
I, or anyone else that I know of, has never said that a 6.2/6.5 is a "better" engine than the other big 3.
It's a old school diesel that alot of people own. Maybe some of those people can't afford, or don't want to buy a newer truck. They would rather fix up what they have.
I just posted it up there to try and help people out, not to start another argument.
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98 QC 1 ton 4x4 12 valve
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83 Chevy 4x4 "the mighty 6.2" beater with a heater
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97 ram 2500 12 valve built auto 4x4 sclb
 
Old 02-14-2011, 03:39 PM   #9
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Most dead 6.5s that I've seen had a broken crank and they were stock fuel...how do you fix that?
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LReiff View Post
Most dead 6.5s that I've seen had a broken crank and they were stock fuel...how do you fix that?
Bingo, the cranks are weak.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:54 PM   #11
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:02 PM   #12
high toned sob

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LReiff View Post
Most dead 6.5s that I've seen had a broken crank and they were stock fuel...how do you fix that?
I've seen those as well. They were in 3500HD's with a utility bed. Usually way overloaded. What trucks were yours in?

I don't have enough fingers to count the number of chewed up cranks and melted pistons I've done in a 6.7 cummins, but I'm not bashing them.
Or turbo replacements or injector replacements or HPRV replacements. Or lift pump replacements or I.P. replacements or dual mass flywheel replacements. The list goes on and on. And that hasn't even started into the truck itself for repairs. They all have their own problems. Let's not forget about the KDP's when they were such a hit.
I have 2 12 valves and I love them. Can be way stronger than a 6.5/6.2 I'll be the first to admit that.
But some people, for example out here there are alot of farmers, look at COST more than performance. A ragged out 12 valve truck is $5000 (I just bought another one). A real nice extended cab 6.5 TD is $5000.

Never said they were bulletproof.
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83 Chevy 4x4 "the mighty 6.2" beater with a heater
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97 ram 2500 12 valve built auto 4x4 sclb

Last edited by high toned sob; 02-14-2011 at 04:03 PM.
 
Old 02-14-2011, 08:53 PM   #13
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And last I heard from the guy who drives this truck was it had almost 200K miles on it since being built and had yet to have the first major breakdown of any kind. And this engine was built back before the turbos that are now available and the current tuning for teh DS4 pumps that can surpass the DB pumps for milage, starting, and driveability. But if it aint a cummins then it aint squat around here it seems. I seriously wonder why they bothered putting in the 6.2/6.5 section here when all of teh repsonses it seems like are put a cummins in it or buy a real truck.
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high toned sob View Post
I've seen those as well. They were in 3500HD's with a utility bed. Usually way overloaded. What trucks were yours in?

I don't have enough fingers to count the number of chewed up cranks and melted pistons I've done in a 6.7 cummins, but I'm not bashing them.
Or turbo replacements or injector replacements or HPRV replacements. Or lift pump replacements or I.P. replacements or dual mass flywheel replacements. The list goes on and on. And that hasn't even started into the truck itself for repairs. They all have their own problems. Let's not forget about the KDP's when they were such a hit.
I have 2 12 valves and I love them. Can be way stronger than a 6.5/6.2 I'll be the first to admit that.
But some people, for example out here there are alot of farmers, look at COST more than performance. A ragged out 12 valve truck is $5000 (I just bought another one). A real nice extended cab 6.5 TD is $5000.

Never said they were bulletproof.

3/4 ton extended cab, that was babied most of its life. Crank went right at 200k. I will say this that stock for stock the 6.5 would out accelerate my 97 auto. Hook them to a trailer and no contest.
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high toned sob View Post
At the end of the article it stated the benifits to the project. It's really not hard to rebuild one of these. Compare it to a BBC rebuild. You can build one for less than $1500.

I had my pistons cut to 18.1 compression by the local speedshop. Cost me $80.
I installed marine tips and set popoff pressure myself, cost me $75 for the Bosch tips.
I had $125 in rings.
I had $150 in a gasket kit.
I had $50 in the better updated headbolts.
I had $80 in all the bearings.
I had $40 in a pump kit and I bored out the plunger/more volume myself-free.
I had probably another $200 in misc.-balancer, WP, oil pump.
Even if you don't have anything in your shop, you can find intercoolers and better turbo's all day long for cheap, we all know that.

Add it up. If a guy has a NICE older truck that's paid for, who just wants a 275hp/450ft lbs. diesel, it's a good engine for that.

The point of this post was to help out in the future, for people asking how to get more. Instead of turning it into a engine swap thread. Not a
You have a good point but how many farmers can rebuild a engine?
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:25 PM   #16
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Jesus ****ing Christ..........


ITS A TURD. Here's an idea.......if the owner only wants a 237hp diesel pick-up what are the chances of them knowing how to rebuild the damn engine?

How about what are they gonna do with the down time?

Then you have done all that work so you can just hang with a STOCK cummins/stroker? Sounds pretty frivolous to me. All that for an engine that may or may not crack the heads, or just randomly spit the damn crank out.

You wanna know people are told to get a cummins or swap it? BECAUSE ITS A COMPETITION SITE! And guess what wins???? Last I seen a 6.5 wasn't a winner, its a towel boy.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:57 AM   #17
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I know it's called Competition Diesel. That's what makes this site so great. However, why even bother putting any other forums in here other than Cummins?
It was an article to help people. Some of you guys make a point to post just to bash something else. That doesn't help anyone. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to ruin someones thread.
Competition Diesel.

Not http://www.putacumminsinitdiesel.com
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:03 AM   #18
high toned sob

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachie View Post
Jesus ****ing Christ..........


ITS A TURD. Here's an idea.......if the owner only wants a 237hp diesel pick-up what are the chances of them knowing how to rebuild the damn engine?
Because the mechanical 12 valves were 180 hp. How many of those have you rebuilt? I'd guess a couple.

How about what are they gonna do with the down time?

Then you have done all that work so you can just hang with a STOCK cummins/stroker? Re-read the article. It did more than hang with one.Sounds pretty frivolous to me. All that for an engine that may or may not crack the heads, or just randomly spit the damn crank out. They don't randomly spit the crank out. That's a bit of a stretch.

You wanna know people are told to get a cummins or swap it? BECAUSE ITS A COMPETITION SITE! And guess what wins???? Last I seen a 6.5 wasn't a winner, its a towel boy.

So if you were wanting a everyday driver or a light duty work truck you would walk away from a nice 6.5 truck to pay more for a rotted out 12valve truck? All because it has the potential for more power?
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83 Chevy 4x4 "the mighty 6.2" beater with a heater
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high toned sob View Post
So if you were wanting a everyday driver or a light duty work truck you would walk away from a nice 6.5 truck to pay more for a rotted out 12valve truck? All because it has the potential for more power?
Yes, but becasue it's reliable, not for power.

I have a 95 12v with 375K miles, and has been at 400hp for 150K miles now, towing loads grossing in excess of 30K lbs all over the Midwest. PLEASE show me a 6.5L that will do that, and average 12mpg towing while it is


I like 6.5L's....in 1/2 tons, they get awesome mileage. They also tow a bit better than a 454...
Chris
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:42 AM   #20
high toned sob

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Chris your absolutely right. No way a 6.5 could handle 30k lbs. And they do tow better and get better mileage than a 454.
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83 Chevy 4x4 "the mighty 6.2" beater with a heater
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97 ram 2500 12 valve built auto 4x4 sclb
 
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