Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Competition and Performance > P-Pump 24Valve
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-19-2009, 10:12 PM   #1
roachie
 
roachie's Avatar

Name: roachie
Title: Taco Master
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,133
P-Pump F.A.Q. READ THIS FIRST!!!

Seems alot of threads keep getting asking the same thing on this subject. So here is the basics for all of you considering it.

Is the swap right for me?

This has many answers. If you want 400hp, daily drive your truck, and tow, no. You would be better off with your VP. Unless the truck is operated in the middle of nowhere miles from any help it really isnt worth it. Honestly unless you want the cool factor, being under 600HP this isnt neccasary. Pullers and racers wanting over 4000rpm this is your only choice.

How much does it cost?

Some have come out money ahead in it, some have spent 10k. A parts kit will be around $1600. A new pump will run over $2000 with a core charge. Of course you can get a used engine with all the parts you need excluding the injection lines for $1500. Selling the VP stuff to recoup the money helps.

What parts do I need for the swap?

Ok, Haisley Machine, Schied, and Pured Diesel Power sell conversion sets. Basically you will need a Pump, 12v gear cover, P-pump drive gear, throttle linkage, intake horn spacer, P-pump bracket (2 pieces), 12V throttle cable, and a set of custom injector lines. Get stainless steel lines, unless the truck is a dedicated puller. If your truck is an 01-02 you will need a cam sensor relocation bracket from haisley.

Buying a complete 12V would be the easiest thing.

Can I do this myself?

This depends on your mechanical ability. If changing injectors is a big deal, you dont need to do this. If you can swap cams in a 5.9 then you can do the actual swap. Dont lie, either you can or cant. You also need to be familar with the 12V and 24V fuel system.

If you cant do the swap expect to pay $1200-2500 in labor.

You will also need some fabrcation skills.

How hard is it to tune?

Again, depends on your personal experience. You dont bolt on a pump and drive. It will require some work. Most trucks like around 19* some like more depending on your injectors and pump. AFC will need tweeked with other things wastegate, govenor, ect.

What do I do about injectors?

Thats a delima. The quick fix is to reset the pop pressure on your injectors. 280-300 BAR seems to be the norm. I ran mine at VP pressure, picked up about 80hp with the correct pressure. Some companies make injectors specific to this application. Just call your prefered shop and talk to them.

What is the best P-pump to use?

Um, one that works. Really, if its a driver anything is fine. YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE A 215 TO MAKE POWER. Its been proven that a 160 will make all you want on a street truck. If your building a Competition Diesel, a 215 will be a better pump. So will a 13mm, really depends on your budget and hp level.

What do I need to do to the P-pump?

Again, depends on the application. If your granpa and want to haul your camper, 3000 RPM Govener Spring Kit and a #6 plate will be all you need.

Alternately if you want to make some numbers a 4GSK, laser cuts (or 191's), with some AFC mods, a 100 plate, and a rack plug. With proper tuning that will get you to 600hp.

Will my juice work one the truck after the swap.

Leave us.

What do I do about my electronics?

Ok if you want the gauges to work again you will need to keep you cam sensor/ crank sensor. 98.5-00 will just use the crank sensor, 01-02 will need the cam sensor. This does more than run your tach. Without it, the dash, A/C, charging system, and cruise will not work.

What do I do with my ECM?

Bracket will need to be fabricated to hold the ECM. An inverted "T" bolted to the brake booster will work. Use your imagination, keep clear of the stearing shaft and other lines.

What fuel pump do I use?

If you bought an aftermarket cam with a fuel pump lobe you can use a 12V lift pump. Otherwise you can use any electic fuel pump that is able to supply 35+ psi (Fass, Air Dog, ect.)

Will my cruise control work?

This is varying with your truck. If your truck has a vacuum cruise control system then YES. The Throttle Position Sensor will need to be connected to the TPS, as will the cable from the Cruise unit. Some 01-02's had Fly-by-Wire cruise. As of right now Im not sure if that can be converted to a vacuum type unit. If enought parts are swaped it can be done.

I have an automatic, how do I keep it functioning?

The TPS and TV cable will need to be connected to the throttle.

How is the drivability?

This is impossible to answer. It depends on your setup and personal taste. I will tell you that you will not have near the low end torque of a VP44.

How much HP will I make?

300-1500hp. Depends on your wallet.

Last part.

Those of you on the fence about doing this, this should have answered all your questions. Anything I havent covered ask in this thread an we will do out best to answer it.

Above all, use the search button and READ.
__________________
99 F250____sold (to a ninja)
01 F250____Mexican F150
04 F350____Fat boy

Last edited by roachie; 07-19-2009 at 10:20 PM.
 
Old 07-19-2009, 10:34 PM   #2
Phooker
 
Phooker's Avatar

Name: Phooker
Title: Amos Moses' Neighbor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lake Charles, La
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,018
Sticky!!!
 
Old 07-20-2009, 08:41 AM   #3
bsmith
 
bsmith's Avatar

Name: bsmith
Title: Never enough
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: la
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,966
Great read!



roachie, i thought your stainless lines kept leaking?
__________________



RIP DEX

2001 2500 2wd
Diesel pro's cam
Walbro 392
Goff diesel injection
160hp pump
6x.013's by Weston
HTT 62/71/13 over FI 82/92/1.10
Levi's turbo blankets!
 
Old 07-20-2009, 02:12 PM   #4
explosives87
 
explosives87's Avatar

Name: explosives87
Title: powder monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of California
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 953
great write up.
__________________
01 QCLB 4x4 Bone stock

Quote of the Day:

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading."
 
Old 07-20-2009, 03:30 PM   #5
JakeDiesel

Name: JakeDiesel
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 415
Sticky Nice write up

If doing the swap how dou tell what timing u would want, do u look at ur egts, or is it just what feels right to u. dont plan on doin a swap anytime soon just curious.
Thanks Jake
__________________
94 Dodge 1500 2wd powered by 4BTAA cummins 3.9 a518 Trans 27mpg http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cu...cs-truck-.html
(Friends) 95 Dodge 2500 4x4 #6 fuel plate and 35lbs of boost
 
Old 07-20-2009, 05:53 PM   #6
BgBlDodge
 
BgBlDodge's Avatar

Name: BgBlDodge
Title: Hates hippies
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buda, Tx
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,647
Nice write up. Only thing I'd change is buying the stainless lines. Heard lots of stories from lots of folks about them cracking.
__________________
2003 Nissan 350z Touring 6mt
2000 4runner Limited

Tyler Williams

We have become educated beyond our intelligence. -Jerry Clower
 
Old 07-20-2009, 06:39 PM   #7
bnold
 
bnold's Avatar

Name: bnold
Title: Cummins. What else?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 130
I'd kill the stainless lines deal as well...


Oh and if tuned right, the daily drive and tow isn't an issue either... Much happier with DD and towing with my setup now, so much more predictable than with the VP.. IMO
__________________
2011 Ram 3500 CCLB SRW
 
Old 07-20-2009, 07:25 PM   #8
red96ram
 
red96ram's Avatar

Name: red96ram
Title: Jerzey trash in CO
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 36
how is the driving compared to a well tuned 12v? is it gonna feel any different than a good 12v?
__________________
1996 2500, 12v 4x4 auto ex cab long bed, adequately valved and properly tuned by CSM Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01smoker View Post
And a muffler isn't gonna get rid of the wet elephant fart sound.
 
Old 07-20-2009, 09:17 PM   #9
BgBlDodge
 
BgBlDodge's Avatar

Name: BgBlDodge
Title: Hates hippies
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buda, Tx
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,647
Shouldn't considering that your running the heart of the 12v.
__________________
2003 Nissan 350z Touring 6mt
2000 4runner Limited

Tyler Williams

We have become educated beyond our intelligence. -Jerry Clower
 
Old 07-20-2009, 09:22 PM   #10
cetanefreek

Name: cetanefreek
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Idaho
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 714
another vote against the stainless lines, they sure are pretty, but not after they crack and leak fuel all over the engine.
 
Old 07-20-2009, 09:50 PM   #11
roachie
 
roachie's Avatar

Name: roachie
Title: Taco Master
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith View Post
Great read!roachie, i thought your stainless lines kept leaking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeDiesel View Post
If doing the swap how dou tell what timing u would want, do u look at ur egts, or is it just what feels right to u. dont plan on doin a swap anytime soon just curious.
Thanks Jake
Quote:
Originally Posted by BgBlDodge View Post
Nice write up. Only thing I'd change is buying the stainless lines. Heard lots of stories from lots of folks about them cracking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnold View Post
I'd kill the stainless lines deal as well...
Oh and if tuned right, the daily drive and tow isn't an issue either... Much happier with DD and towing with my setup now, so much more predictable than with the VP.. IMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by red96ram View Post
how is the driving compared to a well tuned 12v? is it gonna feel any different than a good 12v?
About the injection lines:

Alot of the failures of the lines are from poor craftsmanship or improper instalation. The kits come with injector line clamps assembled in a fasion that you would think is acceptable. The truth is you need to reuse some of the clamps and stand from the VP. Be prepared to fight them on too.

Stainless is a better choice for a street truck over the mild steel. Vibration and corosion will take its toll on regular steel real quick.

Timing:

That depends on your setup, goals, and taste. If your wanting a low RPM towing setup, around 17. Most street performance trucks will like 19-21, remember bottom end power suffers as you increase the timing.

Street Manners/ Drivability:

Like I said this is personal preferance. A P=pump has fixed timing vs. the VP's dynamic timing. Dynamic meaning it adjusts the timing in relation to input from various sensors to give the most power possible.

With that said, a P-pump will not make its peak torque at 1600rpm and hold it like a VP. The P7100 will have a nice curve going up to the peak torque and back down after the peak. Timing will adjust where that is along with other mods on your truck.

I dont care what anyone says, the low end torque of a VP is the cat's meow for driving/ towing. Agian, thats just my opinion.

Tuned 12V vs. 24V conversion:

The short answer is you can throw more fuel at a coverted 24V than a 12V with reasonable egt's. This comes from the 24V head flowing the same CFM as a Stg2 ported 12V head (from piers chart). Turbos will light a little quicker, EGT's will be lower, and low end power will pick up some if you were comparing similar fueling.The real bennifit is swaping to an aftermarket cam while your doing the swap. That will help substatialy.

With a Helix 2 in my truck I ran lazer cut Delivery Valves with 7x14's (280ish hp injectors) and a Silver Bullet 66. With the AFC tuned properly it was relativly clean on the street. Exept at WOT.
__________________
99 F250____sold (to a ninja)
01 F250____Mexican F150
04 F350____Fat boy
 
Old 07-20-2009, 10:30 PM   #12
02Dodge2500HO
 
02Dodge2500HO's Avatar

Name: 02Dodge2500HO
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Louisville Ky
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 285
don't forget a valve train for a 24 valve to be able to trun some rpm is 1200 bucks.
__________________
06 Dodge 2500 4x4 QCSB. Auto, S&B intake, 4 in exhaust, Airdog 150, 100hp II injectors, Edge CTS, Garmon stage 3, tuning by Innovative diesel
7.96 at 86.00 1/8mile 635hp
Soon: 464, 100%, duals
 
Old 07-20-2009, 10:33 PM   #13
roachie
 
roachie's Avatar

Name: roachie
Title: Taco Master
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,133
I cranked well past 4K with a cam, stock valve train, and 55-60psi.

Pistons never touched the valves.

Springs, retainers, and keepers help, rumor is that stock bridges cyro'd will be just fine. IIRC
__________________
99 F250____sold (to a ninja)
01 F250____Mexican F150
04 F350____Fat boy
 
Old 07-20-2009, 10:45 PM   #14
Oaborbag
 
Oaborbag's Avatar

Name: Oaborbag
Title: It's just a 6 cylinder
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Turlock, California
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 187
Nice write up, answered all my questions I'd have if, or should I say when my 2nd vp dies.
__________________
06 2500 Mega Laramie 4x4, stock for now...
99 Dodge 2500 4X4 AT QC/swb, rings/studs, Super B Special, M6's, ATS Trans/TC, Drag Comp v10.8, 5" Exh, etc etc. 12.37 @ 112.9 - Sold, wtf was I thinking
 
Old 07-21-2009, 03:55 AM   #15
SWALLDOG
 
SWALLDOG's Avatar

Name: SWALLDOG
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 445
good write up! I like it.
__________________
01 QC/SB 6-SPEED, COMPOUND TURBOS, SB DD, HYD-ASSIST STEERING, 255/70R 22.5 MICHELIN XD2
Truck Build - DD, Tow Rig and play! - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
 
Old 07-21-2009, 07:04 AM   #16
bnold
 
bnold's Avatar

Name: bnold
Title: Cummins. What else?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 130
Agreed it is a good write up...
__________________
2011 Ram 3500 CCLB SRW
 
Old 07-21-2009, 08:03 AM   #17
JakeDiesel

Name: JakeDiesel
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 415
Roachie
__________________
94 Dodge 1500 2wd powered by 4BTAA cummins 3.9 a518 Trans 27mpg http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cu...cs-truck-.html
(Friends) 95 Dodge 2500 4x4 #6 fuel plate and 35lbs of boost
 
Old 07-21-2009, 05:11 PM   #18
Bosshawg600
 
Bosshawg600's Avatar

Name: Bosshawg600
Title: PDP.com FireFighter
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Monticello,In
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,640
From mathews8pt on another site. This was his parts list for his swap. Should help a few people out when tracking down parts!!!!

175 pump, gear, nut, washer, all throttle linkage on side of pump, 12v throttle cable, gear case, gear cover, bracket for mounting pump, oil line, T fitting for oil lines
12v TV cable for tranny, TPS mounting bracket and 6 used TPS sensors(not needed if you have a 5 speed) > $50
.084 conversion lines (lines only) > $380
Intake spacer made by local machinist (had him make it 1 1/4" tall)
Cam (max spool 2.5)
Tappets (new CR tappets) > $90
.022 dvs > $150
4gsk > $130
Fuel lines(just used 3/8" for now, will upgrade later) > $10
Gasket material for intake spacer(i can make about 30 out of one roll) > $6
EOS oil and cummins assembly lube > $10
Timing cover gasket set > $52
Dowel rods (1/2")
110# valve springs
60psi fuel gauge mounted in regulator

Now there are a few upgrades, like the cam and CR tappets, that arent exactly needed, but its a pretty simple run down!!!
__________________
2011 Ram Mega, Because my old bones need Comfort!
 
Old 07-21-2009, 08:25 PM   #19
MCummings

Name: MCummings
Title: It's my name ^
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laredo, Tx
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Dodge2500HO View Post
don't forget a valve train for a 24 valve to be able to trun some rpm is 1200 bucks.
So is a 12v setup...

Merrick
__________________
'98.5 3500 2wd 6-speed
500HP/1000TQ Dual Wheels, Turbos and Clutch. That's why I call it.. "My Dually...
'98.0 2500 Auto 4wd, VGT from a 6.7, Floor It Trans.
 
Old 07-21-2009, 09:25 PM   #20
roachie
 
roachie's Avatar

Name: roachie
Title: Taco Master
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,133
Something I forgot:

Oil Feed line

The P7100 is oil lubricated. To do the swap you will need a oil line "T" and line. The "T" is oem for a 12V. You will also need the too connect the pump to the oil supply. It is a -4an line, will also need a line to go from the "T" to the power steering pump.

The OEM inlet of the P-pump is blocked by the head. Luckily the pump has 2 inlets. The other is on the drivers side of the pump. The original inlet needs to be blocked, It uses an 1/8 NPT IIRC.

The secondary feed is a different thread, you will need a special fitting with a restricor. They can be found here. http://www.shop.eatsoot.com/category.sc?categoryId=5

They also have the cam sensor braket for the 01-02's.
__________________
99 F250____sold (to a ninja)
01 F250____Mexican F150
04 F350____Fat boy
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 PM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2017, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com