Advertisement |
|
|
|
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
|
Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
02-01-2008, 02:01 AM
|
#1
|
Name: Cummins Driver
Title: THE Cummins Driver
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kentucky
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,405
|
Why not. Two hx35's
Well, i got to thinking tonight(step back)
Why couldnt you run two HX35's?
Setup #1)
Flip the manifold upside down, run the exhaust out of the first 35 into the inlet of the 2nd one(which should fit under the hx35 on top), then out the exhaust. Have the compressor piping Y together, and seperate air intakes off each turbo so that each compressor side worked independent of the other. You would have 2 air filters. Then maybe run a external wastegate, and bigger exhaust housings on both turbos. Seems to me this would give you twice the airflow of one HX35. One HX35 will support 300hp pretty easy, so why wouldnt 2 of them support 450-500hp with great spoolup? Im thinking drive pressures might still be high with this setup though.
Setup #2)
Run two manifolds at 3 cylinders a piece, and hang an HX35 off each manifold. Same deal. Y the compressor piping together and have seperate air filters, and run the exhaust together since each turbo would then have its own exhaust pipe. Run 12cm housings since you would only be running 3 cylinders worth of exhaust through each one. This seems like it would be a slightly more complicated, but better setup, and I dont think drive pressure would be a problem at all with this setup.
Both should cool pretty decent with a good volume of air, and spool great.
So shoot me down, but id love to try one of these.
Eric
__________________
94 Dodge 2500 4x4 Reg Cab
Some fueling/HE351cw and a Semi-Built Auto
01 Dodge 3500 4x4 Dually Ext. Cab
Home Built 47re and an Edge Juice/Attitue & Air Dog
93 D250 Club Cab A518 - THD Fuel Pin
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 02:12 AM
|
#2
|
Name: SEOHPowerstroke
Title: Project Developement
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southeastern, OH
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 498
|
That sounds like alot of effort to make a little bit of hp. Plus a stock HX-35 will make the same amount of drive pressure: boost pressure ratio whether it is being fed by 3 cylinder or 6, so it will not be to any advantage to run either setup. You are still doubling the cylinder pressure.
__________________
2009 GMC Sierra 3500 CC DRW dpf deleted, Transgo, FASS 150/200, Efi Live by Bob Olsen
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 02:34 AM
|
#3
|
Name: Cummins Driver
Title: THE Cummins Driver
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kentucky
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,405
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEOHPowerstroke
That sounds like alot of effort to make a little bit of hp. Plus a stock HX-35 will make the same amount of drive pressure: boost pressure ratio whether it is being fed by 3 cylinder or 6, so it will not be to any advantage to run either setup. You are still doubling the cylinder pressure.
|
450-500hp is more than a little bit, and if it is towable with great spoolup and decent EGT's then that is a pretty good feat. I have more time than money, and you cant buy an SPS 62 or the like for what you could do this for. Heck I dont care what the drive pressure is if the EGT and power are good.
It seems to me everyone likes to knock this idea but no one has tried it.
__________________
94 Dodge 2500 4x4 Reg Cab
Some fueling/HE351cw and a Semi-Built Auto
01 Dodge 3500 4x4 Dually Ext. Cab
Home Built 47re and an Edge Juice/Attitue & Air Dog
93 D250 Club Cab A518 - THD Fuel Pin
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 02:45 AM
|
#4
|
Name: SEOHPowerstroke
Title: Project Developement
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southeastern, OH
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 498
|
If drive pressures don't matter put one per cylinder. But believe me, drive pressures do matter. Not trying to discourage your innovation, but I would invest elsewere.
__________________
2009 GMC Sierra 3500 CC DRW dpf deleted, Transgo, FASS 150/200, Efi Live by Bob Olsen
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 02:47 AM
|
#5
|
Name: SEOHPowerstroke
Title: Project Developement
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southeastern, OH
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 498
|
[QUOTE=Cummins Driver] It seems to me everyone likes to knock this idea but no one has tried it.
The majority doesn't like blown head gaskets.
__________________
2009 GMC Sierra 3500 CC DRW dpf deleted, Transgo, FASS 150/200, Efi Live by Bob Olsen
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 03:27 AM
|
#6
|
Name: Timebomb
Title: Bootney Lee Fonsworth
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Swap Meet
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,069
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummins Driver
Well, i got to thinking tonight(step back)
Why couldnt you run two HX35's?
Setup #2)
Run two manifolds at 3 cylinders a piece, and hang an HX35 off each manifold. Same deal. Y the compressor piping together and have seperate air filters, and run the exhaust together since each turbo would then have its own exhaust pipe. Run 12cm housings since you would only be running 3 cylinders worth of exhaust through each one. This seems like it would be a slightly more complicated, but better setup, and I dont think drive pressure would be a problem at all with this setup.
Both should cool pretty decent with a good volume of air, and spool great.
So shoot me down, but id love to try one of these.
Eric
|
Im guessing it would be like running about a 110mm single charger with a very large turbin housing. When you run turbos in paralel like this they tend to be smaller than you may think.
__________________
95 12v 4x4 Ex Cab Auto
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 05:38 AM
|
#7
|
Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 23,151
|
Poor spoolup. If you could valve the other one off. Then it would be ok. Figure it will spool at twice the rpm it does now.
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 07:17 AM
|
#8
|
Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken
Poor spoolup. If you could valve the other one off. Then it would be ok. Figure it will spool at twice the rpm it does now.
|
Nice, easy way to explain it
As far as the drive pressure thing, it would also alleviate the drive pressure issues with HX35's...since you have 2 turbine sections to split the pressure with, it will basically cut the "potential" pressure in half...not too mention that the wastegates would actually be able to keep up.
If it were me, and I was bored, I'd use two HY35's with external gates, or some of the ricer custom housings on HX35/40 hybrids with External gates.
I might do something like this on my 4BT...but I'm leaning towards a GT2554R/GT3782R twinset
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 07:31 AM
|
#9
|
Name: Scooter's Roofing
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,007
|
turbos aren't magic... an HX35 will support 300hp at a given pressure ratio. that doesn't mean two will support 500 and three will support 700 and so on.
an HX35 is out of its efficiency range at 35psi... two HX35's with parallel compressors are out of their efficiency range at? 35psi... but now they take twice as long to reach 35psi
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 07:37 AM
|
#10
|
Name: halerazor
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield,OH
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 454
|
already been done!! go check out woodruff diesel, they tied the 2 hx35's into one s300 and call it their street three turbo
http://www.woodruffdiesel.com/
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 07:39 AM
|
#11
|
Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
|
Right...but the Mass Air flow from two would be higher than one, so it would support more power. Probably not double, but I'd bet 450-500 would be do-able...I've seen tractors set up this way, and it does work very well in that application!
The only way to really find out is to do it!
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 07:40 AM
|
#12
|
Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by halerazor
already been done!! go check out woodruff diesel, they tied the 2 hx35's into one s300 and call it their street three turbo
http://www.woodruffdiesel.com/
|
I've seen that setup...neat, but certainly not as effective as it could have been if the chargers were sized properly!
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 08:00 AM
|
#13
|
Name: Scooter's Roofing
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,007
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600
Right...but the Mass Air flow from two would be higher than one, so it would support more power. Probably not double, but I'd bet 450-500 would be do-able...I've seen tractors set up this way, and it does work very well in that application!
The only way to really find out is to do it!
Chris
|
right, but the CFM flow of the engine would be the same... that cylinder head and camshaft are only going to allow so many CFM... the only way to increase the Mass at a given CFM is to increase density... and since you're dealing with a fixed density level (35psi) You're dealing with essentially a fixed mass air flow...
I've got no problem with trying to reinvent the wheel, but when you talk about making it square shaped, I feel obligated as a fellow human being to try to keep you from wasting your time
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 08:12 AM
|
#14
|
Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
|
That what kinda what I was thinking too...I didn't go that far though. The head is still the limiting factor for the airflow of the two chargers...I guess I should have continued my thoughts and saved you a post
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 08:18 AM
|
#15
|
Name: Scooter's Roofing
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,007
|
this is CompD... we're lucky if we can scrape together one good brain between the entire lot of us!
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 08:20 AM
|
#16
|
Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
|
I know...ain't it great!
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
|
|
|
02-01-2008, 08:22 AM
|
#17
|
Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
|
BTW, Eric...if you're looking for 450-500 towable, fast spooling twins...go with a HY35 with an external gate, and a 66mm or 71mm S400/GT42 and a 1.10 A/R W/G housing. Sometimes you can get lucky and find them on E-bay cheap, and have a super fast spooling set of towing twins!
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
|
|
|
02-02-2008, 12:33 AM
|
#18
|
Name: GLHS
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 220
|
If I remember correctly, member hdm48 tried this over on TDR in the 1st gen topics about 4 years ago. I think it spooled very poorly.
I'll have to look it up.
__________________
1992 Dodge ext.cab W-250, 5-spd Getrag, 3.54, stock long block, DDP 4s, 455hp/1004trq 13.34 @ 102 Denver (7/06) 472hp (5/08)
|
|
|
02-02-2008, 12:44 AM
|
#19
|
Name: Scooter's Roofing
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,007
|
obviously it spooled poorly, it's simple physics
|
|
|
02-02-2008, 03:56 AM
|
#20
|
Name: Cummins Driver
Title: THE Cummins Driver
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kentucky
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,405
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest Nearing
right, but the CFM flow of the engine would be the same... that cylinder head and camshaft are only going to allow so many CFM... the only way to increase the Mass at a given CFM is to increase density... and since you're dealing with a fixed density level (35psi) You're dealing with essentially a fixed mass air flow...
|
The CFM flow of the engine is always the same. You are not changing the cylinder head and camshaft by putting any turbo on it. By putting an aftermarket turbo on a truck you are increasing the density and volume of air available. Two 35's would be twice the volume of one, with an air density probably as good as any if kept at 35psi. Im not talking about making a 800hp truck, and i think 450-500 is plenty doable with 2 of them. Heck, people make a hot smokey 400hp on one HX35 every day.
Im not saying this would be the best thing since sliced bread, I just havent seen an opinion that has changed my mind about it yet.
I think ZStroken might be right about bad spoolup on setup #2 though.
__________________
94 Dodge 2500 4x4 Reg Cab
Some fueling/HE351cw and a Semi-Built Auto
01 Dodge 3500 4x4 Dually Ext. Cab
Home Built 47re and an Edge Juice/Attitue & Air Dog
93 D250 Club Cab A518 - THD Fuel Pin
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:33 AM.
|