Piston Rings

T

TNTHEMIENGINES

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Anyone have any experience with using a piston ring other than the Keystone style. I am not happy with the leak down numbers I am getting.
 
I hate to leave anyone unanswered, so the short answer here is yes. Pretty much every aftermarket custom piston does not have the keystone style rings, they use the standard style of rings.
 
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What pistons and rings to use is all dependant on the application. We have developed a new forged piston that has a steel insert made into the piston to support the top ring land. We are the only ones to have this technology. This allows us to run a forged 2618 piston on the street and competition vehicles without beating the top ring land out prematurely.
 
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D&J Precision said:
What pistons and rings to use is all dependant on the application. We have developed a new forged piston that has a steel insert made into the piston to support the top ring land. We are the only ones to have this technology.
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No you are not. And it is maybe 50 years old technology.
 
He said forged piston with metal insert not cast with metal insert. Why don't you tell who else makes them if there are others.
 
C'ya said:
He said forged piston with metal insert not cast with metal insert. Why don't you tell who else makes them if there are others.
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The technology has been around quite some time. Just go read Mahle's list of patents (some long expired) and their references and you'll get an idea of how much this has been researched and applied.

D&J might be the only folks currently selling it into this market.

I'd like to know from Drew how many engines and miles on their stuff, how many tear down and inspections, how many used pistons cut up to see what the bond looks like, etc.

It's not rocket science to get the steel insert in there. It is a bit of rocket science to get it to stay in there over the long haul without coming loose.
 
I know they are in Lavon Millers truck, they did a tear down after running it all year and said they looked new still. Both of them can elaborate much more, that's just what I have seen.
 
nwpadmax said:
The technology has been around quite some time. Just go read Mahle's list of patents (some long expired) and their references and you'll get an idea of how much this has been researched and applied.

D&J might be the only folks currently selling it into this market.

I'd like to know from Drew how many engines and miles on their stuff, how many tear down and inspections, how many used pistons cut up to see what the bond looks like, etc.

It's not rocket science to get the steel insert in there. It is a bit of rocket science to get it to stay in there over the long haul without coming loose.
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:thankyou2:
 
Pretty sure he meant in the "diesel pickup aftermarket". Other markets are of no concern in this case. I'm glad he decided to try it out.
 
kleann said:
Pretty sure he meant in the "diesel pickup aftermarket". Other markets are of no concern in this case. I'm glad he decided to try it out.
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Agree with you.....BUT....if it was truly novel and reliable, a much wider market would be interested pretty quickly. Like one particular customer big enough that pulling trucks would become a total side show.
 
nwpadmax said:
Agree with you.....BUT....if it was truly novel and reliable, a much wider market would be interested pretty quickly. Like one particular customer big enough that pulling trucks would become a total side show.
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I agree with you as well, but I'm thinking the deciding factor on implementing the technology is the fact that electronically controlled diesel pickup are quite versatile in the way they can do both high hp racing and daily driving duties. Where as other engines/platforms are not as versatile. Certainty this is a niche market inside an already niche market.

Time will tell how reliable they are, but I have pretty good faith in the testing done in Lavon's engine.
 
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Meh, one of those pistons needs to be cut and sectioned in several areas before you have anything more than an encouraging observation.
 
1 engine with 10,000 miles on it is hardly enough data to make any kind of claim to this being reliable. See what they look like with 100,000 on them in 100 engines and maybe then it can be determined. Seems a bit premature on the side of sales but as for anything else in this industry the buyer assumes the risk. D&J does make some nice stuff though and hope it works out for them.
 
According to the Facebook page, they were only in the engine for 5500 miles. Not sure that's long enough to make a justifiable claim they will hold up in a street engine. What do I know though? Lol


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Does the hp level factor into the equation at all? I'd think 5500 miles in an engine that did over 1500hp to the tires and went 9's in the quarter would be a bit more stressful than 10k or 20k in say a vp daily driver. I have no dog in this just seems like these are being condemned before they are widely in use.
 
J-Pipes said:
Does the hp level factor into the equation at all? I'd think 5500 miles in an engine that did over 1500hp to the tires and went 9's in the quarter would be a bit more stressful than 10k or 20k in say a vp daily driver. I have no dog in this just seems like these are being condemned before they are widely in use.
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I don't think anyone is condemning them just alot more tests should be run before letting it out that they are being made. Remember the MAD Aluminum head that they started promoting before they tested it. Got everyone excited and then it was a flop.
 
It's a matter of perspective. There are forged pistons without steel ring lands that go high HP and are already lasting over 20K mi....so when someone says they have a better mousetrap, people ask questions, that's all.

I think everyone would like to see the technology be successful. It's good for all of us.

However we have seen enough bad examples of "development" that people have become cynical. Have to expect that. I don't think Drew's gonna lose an ounce of sleep over this thread. It will only serve to increase interest, I think.
 
nwpadmax said:
It's a matter of perspective. There are forged pistons without steel ring lands that go high HP and are already lasting over 20K mi....so when someone says they have a better mousetrap, people ask questions, that's all.

I think everyone would like to see the technology be successful. It's good for all of us.

However we have seen enough bad examples of "development" that people have become cynical. Have to expect that. I don't think Drew's gonna lose an ounce of sleep over this thread. It will only serve to increase interest, I think.
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So why the push to go to forged aluminum in street vehicle, are the monotherms not cutting it?
 
I can see the cost perspective, I would think for non competition engines the weight would be negligible, the steel pistons in some of the big truck engines are .8lbs heavier than a comparable aluminum, but there is no comparison in longevity.
 
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