Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > The Entrance Gate- Welcome to Competition Diesel > Competition Events and Get-Togethers > Pro Pulling League(PPL)
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-25-2014, 08:06 PM   #21
D&J Precision
 
D&J Precision's Avatar

Name: D&J Precision
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2011
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 63
I e mailed ppl for clarification and the said they were reviewing the rule Monday.
 
Old 12-25-2014, 08:21 PM   #22
jones95runner
 
jones95runner's Avatar

Name: jones95runner
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by D&J Precision View Post
I e mailed ppl for clarification and the said they were reviewing the rule Monday.
It blows my mind that the Professional Pulling League releases a rule change nationwide, then has to go back and review it? Doesn't look like 3.0 ppl this year will be anything familiar to what it was last year. I think they'll be lucky to have a half dozen trucks most hooks that aren't "big" venues.
 
Old 12-25-2014, 11:12 PM   #23
nwpadmax
 
nwpadmax's Avatar

Name: nwpadmax
Title: Turbo Geek
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Out in the shop
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,103
It's more of the same PPL stupidity. Why are heads even a topic of discussion in this class?
__________________
"What I said does equate too what can happen....Alote."
 
Old 12-26-2014, 08:32 AM   #24
jones95runner
 
jones95runner's Avatar

Name: jones95runner
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpadmax View Post
It's more of the same PPL stupidity. Why are heads even a topic of discussion in this class?
Originally the head rule was brought up to be no billet heads. The head rule shouldn't be left wide open. If you want a billet head there is a class for you. PPL let this class get out of hand and it's going to show it's face this year. If they would have kept a handle on the Turbo/hp and kept everything at a decent level to where a deckplate engine wasn't needed to just keep a engine together I think we wouldn't be having any discussions. If this class was 1300hp Odl it would thrive. 2.6 will take it's place.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 08:57 AM   #25
zstroken
 
zstroken's Avatar

Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 22,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones95runner View Post
Originally the head rule was brought up to be no billet heads. The head rule shouldn't be left wide open. If you want a billet head there is a class for you. PPL let this class get out of hand and it's going to show it's face this year. If they would have kept a handle on the Turbo/hp and kept everything at a decent level to where a deckplate engine wasn't needed to just keep a engine together I think we wouldn't be having any discussions. If this class was 1300hp Odl it would thrive. 2.6 will take it's place.
I am not so sure anymore, as you would still end up with $7000 turbos(shops will charge what people are willing to pay for a winning setup) You would just end up with folks building several engines per season,

If you are not sure, just look at the 2.6 class, folks argument for ODL is so the trucks are more reliable(the same argument for a deckplate in 3.0). The classes will run the same and the numbers will settle out for those that are willing to pay. I think what you have will be the norm, local clubs will have their modified set of rules, and the big money will stay in the big organizations. Some folks will realize that they aren't willing or can't spend the amount of money it takes to chase PPL/NTPA.
__________________
2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)

Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
 
Old 12-26-2014, 09:13 AM   #26
jones95runner
 
jones95runner's Avatar

Name: jones95runner
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken View Post
I am not so sure anymore, as you would still end up with $7000 turbos(shops will charge what people are willing to pay for a winning setup) You would just end up with folks building several engines per season,

If you are not sure, just look at the 2.6 class, folks argument for ODL is so the trucks are more reliable(the same argument for a deckplate in 3.0). The classes will run the same and the numbers will settle out for those that are willing to pay. I think what you have will be the norm, local clubs will have their modified set of rules, and the big money will stay in the big organizations. Some folks will realize that they aren't willing or can't spend the amount of money it takes to chase PPL/NTPA.
I do agree with you. I does suck to have a bastard set of rules but it's for the best for most local orgs. Although I believe there is a very simple Turbo rule that would basically make a 7k Turbo worthless. 3.2x3.6 smooth bore. 2.6 and 3.0 combine. Basically a guy could take a 100% stock cast wheel 60 put a cover on it and make good power. Clipped wheel turbos are b's and everybody knows it.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 09:50 AM   #27
WI Huck
 
WI Huck's Avatar

Name: WI Huck
Title: Where does the time go?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 369
2.5 and 2.6 need to be combined and use a stock out of the box turbo like an hx40. Pick a couple of brands and part numbers. Make it a full interior and able to be street driven. 3.0 should be limited to any single turbo and open driveline. Get back to what it was supposed to be. Street trucks, single turbo pulling trucks with steel bodies and stock style frames, and the open multiple turbo, fiberglass bodies and tube chassis.

These new rules to try and allow the Hamilton heads on a Cummins but not a Wagler head on a Duramax are foolish and not able to be teched. It looks a little bit suspicious when in a Cummins dominated sport one Duramax makes a credible run for the points championship and then all of a sudden a new rule comes out.
__________________
Mark

2003 Chevrolet Duramax Pulling Truck "Never Enough"
2014 Ram 5500 4x4 Pickup

BADGER STATE TRACTOR PULLERS
HUCKSTORF DIESEL
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:00 AM   #28
DISTURBED
 
DISTURBED's Avatar

Name: DISTURBED
Title: YEA WE RIDE THE SHORT BUS
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Winchester, Va
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI Huck View Post
2.5 and 2.6 need to be combined and use a stock out of the box turbo like an hx40. Pick a couple of brands and part numbers. Make it a full interior and able to be street driven. 3.0 should be limited to any single turbo and open driveline. Get back to what it was supposed to be. Street trucks, single turbo pulling trucks with steel bodies and stock style frames, and the open multiple turbo, fiberglass bodies and tube chassis.

These new rules to try and allow the Hamilton heads on a Cummins but not a Wagler head on a Duramax are foolish and not able to be teched. It looks a little bit suspicious when in a Cummins dominated sport one Duramax makes a credible run for the points championship and then all of a sudden a new rule comes out.
Here we go.

Does a wagler head not fit with in the stock head dimension? If we are going to start allowing heads that are taller, longer and wider then stock but are ok because they are cast then why can't a billet head be legal? All the heads on the market are with in stock dimensions but a couple trucks. So why shouldn't the rules be locked down to limit the heads? Would you be ok with us showing up with billet heads on and running them
__________________
Thanks, Jeremy

01 CTD Retired sled puller, dedicated "Twin Turbo" tow rig
96 CTD "TOO" Disturbed 3.0 - Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
96 CTD "The Sickness" 2.6/2.8- Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance

Last edited by DISTURBED; 12-26-2014 at 10:02 AM.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #29
WI Huck
 
WI Huck's Avatar

Name: WI Huck
Title: Where does the time go?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 369
If it did not fit a stock block, you would not be able to use a stock block. As the heads get taller on a V8 motor the factory intake manifolds no longer fit.
__________________
Mark

2003 Chevrolet Duramax Pulling Truck "Never Enough"
2014 Ram 5500 4x4 Pickup

BADGER STATE TRACTOR PULLERS
HUCKSTORF DIESEL
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:15 AM   #30
DISTURBED
 
DISTURBED's Avatar

Name: DISTURBED
Title: YEA WE RIDE THE SHORT BUS
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Winchester, Va
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI Huck View Post
If it did not fit a stock block, you would not be able to use a stock block. As the heads get taller on a V8 motor the factory intake manifolds no longer fit.
Then who is try to and where does it say they are trying to exclude a wagler head if it fits with in the stock dimensions?
__________________
Thanks, Jeremy

01 CTD Retired sled puller, dedicated "Twin Turbo" tow rig
96 CTD "TOO" Disturbed 3.0 - Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
96 CTD "The Sickness" 2.6/2.8- Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:25 AM   #31
jones95runner
 
jones95runner's Avatar

Name: jones95runner
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI Huck View Post
3.0 should be limited to any single turbo and open driveline.
The unlimited single trucks we all once knew were 1000-1100hp trucks with 100% stock short blocks, oem heads with no fancy intakes. Stock intercoolers and water injection only. Not the 2000hp+ the class would be today with 10k 4.5 turbos. A unlimited single class today wouldn't last a full year. . I don't know how the economy is where you people live but ours does not support 100k+ pulling vehicles. I do agree there will always be people spend top dollar on everything but when we leave the rules open to do so, that's our own fault.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:26 AM   #32
WI Huck
 
WI Huck's Avatar

Name: WI Huck
Title: Where does the time go?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by DISTURBED View Post
Then who is try to and where does it say they are trying to exclude a wagler head if it fits with in the stock dimensions?
Manifold bolt pattern dimensions must retain stock dimensions.
__________________
Mark

2003 Chevrolet Duramax Pulling Truck "Never Enough"
2014 Ram 5500 4x4 Pickup

BADGER STATE TRACTOR PULLERS
HUCKSTORF DIESEL
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:37 AM   #33
DISTURBED
 
DISTURBED's Avatar

Name: DISTURBED
Title: YEA WE RIDE THE SHORT BUS
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Winchester, Va
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI Huck View Post
Manifold bolt pattern dimensions must retain stock dimensions.
So the head is taller then?

And nobody has confirmed they are speaking of the exh flange only
__________________
Thanks, Jeremy

01 CTD Retired sled puller, dedicated "Twin Turbo" tow rig
96 CTD "TOO" Disturbed 3.0 - Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
96 CTD "The Sickness" 2.6/2.8- Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:37 AM   #34
WI Huck
 
WI Huck's Avatar

Name: WI Huck
Title: Where does the time go?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones95runner View Post
The unlimited single trucks we all once knew were 1000-1100hp trucks with 100% stock short blocks, oem heads with no fancy intakes. Stock intercoolers and water injection only. Not the 2000hp+ the class would be today with 10k 4.5 turbos. A unlimited single class today wouldn't last a full year. . I don't know how the economy is where you people live but ours does not support 100k+ pulling vehicles. I do agree there will always be people spend top dollar on everything but when we leave the rules open to do so, that's our own fault.
If you allow any single turbo a person would not have to spend the big money on custom made turbos that use a MWE groove in a way that only feeds the larger part of the wheel instead of allowing the air to escape back to the inlet side as it was intended. It would bring the price of turbos down, not up. Sure someone will try to strap on a V16 Cat turbo, but if the objective is to lower the cost of turbos this would do it and make tech inspection a lot easier.
__________________
Mark

2003 Chevrolet Duramax Pulling Truck "Never Enough"
2014 Ram 5500 4x4 Pickup

BADGER STATE TRACTOR PULLERS
HUCKSTORF DIESEL
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:41 AM   #35
WI Huck
 
WI Huck's Avatar

Name: WI Huck
Title: Where does the time go?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by DISTURBED View Post
So the head is taller then?

And nobody has confirmed they are speaking of the exh flange only
I don't have one so I could not say. Are the Hamilton heads taller? Why did they write the rule in the way that they did? What other reason for the rule is there? It all appears knee jerk to me!
__________________
Mark

2003 Chevrolet Duramax Pulling Truck "Never Enough"
2014 Ram 5500 4x4 Pickup

BADGER STATE TRACTOR PULLERS
HUCKSTORF DIESEL
 
Old 12-26-2014, 10:56 AM   #36
Chris Tobin
 
Chris Tobin's Avatar

Name: Chris Tobin
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dayton, TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by DISTURBED View Post
Here we go.

Does a wagler head not fit with in the stock head dimension? If we are going to start allowing heads that are taller, longer and wider then stock but are ok because they are cast then why can't a billet head be legal? All the heads on the market are with in stock dimensions but a couple trucks. So why shouldn't the rules be locked down to limit the heads? Would you be ok with us showing up with billet heads on and running them
The way I read the rule neither the Hamilton or Wagler heads would be legal since they are not OEM heads... If they clarify to OEM dimensions then the Wagler would be legal for the Duramax guys but the Hamilton does not have the intake trough so it does not meet OEM measurements and no Cummins could run a head with an aftermarket intake and milled head...

Seems like they have a lot of clarification to do before the season starts.
__________________
Chris Tobin
Editor--Ultimate Diesel Builder's Guide

Freelance Editor and Photographer
Working with DIESEL WORLD, DIRT SPORTS, MUSCLE CAR POWER & STREET TRUCKS magazines
tobinemail@aol.com
I might be able to help get you in a mag.
Custom poster size photos available. PM or email for info.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 11:05 AM   #37
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI Huck View Post
If you allow any single turbo, it would bring the price of turbos down, not up.
Turbos may be cheaper, but it would ruin the class. So you want to pull against Calvin Miller if he puts a set of DOT tires on? There have been plenty of good options suggested to limit the classes, but it is obvious there is no plan to do so.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance
 
Old 12-26-2014, 11:30 AM   #38
zstroken
 
zstroken's Avatar

Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 22,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI Huck View Post
If you allow any single turbo a person would not have to spend the big money on custom made turbos that use a MWE groove in a way that only feeds the larger part of the wheel instead of allowing the air to escape back to the inlet side as it was intended. It would bring the price of turbos down, not up. Sure someone will try to strap on a V16 Cat turbo, but if the objective is to lower the cost of turbos this would do it and make tech inspection a lot easier.

Do any of the open turbo classes run a $10K turbo? If so I would think that would discredit the above thought.
__________________
2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)

Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
 
Old 12-26-2014, 11:32 AM   #39
zstroken
 
zstroken's Avatar

Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 22,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones95runner View Post
I don't know how the economy is where you people live but ours does not support 100k+ pulling vehicles. I do agree there will always be people spend top dollar on everything but when we leave the rules open to do so, that's our own fault.
I think everyone is missing the idea. Most pulling orgs are happy with a class that have 8-10 committed trucks. They target folks who have the money to build and run $100K setups.
__________________
2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)

Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
 
Old 12-26-2014, 11:54 AM   #40
jones95runner
 
jones95runner's Avatar

Name: jones95runner
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken View Post
I think everyone is missing the idea. Most pulling orgs are happy with a class that have 8-10 committed trucks. They target folks who have the money to build and run $100K setups.
Once again I agree with you to a extent. PPL puts on a hell of a show but the problem is ppl and ntpa together probably account for less than 5% of the pulls in the country. From a puller stand point I hated both ppl pulls I went to this year and really don't care if I go to another. Couldn't watch any of the pull hardly at either one, had to sit in the pits waiting for them to come get you to weigh and all that B's. Went to a big itpa pull with a bigger spectator crowd than schied and it was a enjoyable experience. Just Burns my ass when people say the world should revolve around ppl they aren't the only quality group around. Just my opinion. I know others will differ.
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 AM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2018, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com