Cummins QSC 8.3 CAPS PLEASE HELP!!

[MF cowboy]

New here and I'm hoping someone can help me on this engine fuel system in a Massey Ferguson combine 2000 year 8780xp?
It is a long story saga so bear with me.
Have I posted this in the correct area?
Because I need an expert badly.

[ComnRailPwr]

Yes you are in the correct area.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Signature600]

Originally Posted by MF cowboy

New here and I'm hoping someone can help me on this engine fuel system in a Massey Ferguson combine 2000 year 8780xp?
It is a long story saga so bear with me.
Have I posted this in the correct area?
Because I need an expert badly.

What do you have going on? Been around a few of them in our Gleaner's

Chris

[MF cowboy]

Ok so here is the start of the story.
Purchased this machine 7 years ago 2100 eng hrs.
Only info I got from the previous owner about the engine was that Cummins mid Canada was out to turn the power rating up on this thing.
Since I bought it it never really started the best at cold temperatures.
Kind of like a miss but not really.
Definitely temp related, the colder it is the worse it starts.
Sometimes get a check engine light and it dies and other times not.
This occurs near freezing temps.
+20 C and up hardly notice it.
It has a hard time levelling out for the first 30 seconds to a minute but once it smooths out and catches everything seems ok.
CEL always cleared itself.
So this fall before harvest I decide to investigate this see why its not starting the best.
First notice the wait to start lamp only comes on for 3 seconds regardless of the ambient temp.
Start testing with a test light see if I have power to the large grid heater cables at the top of the engine.
None.
So I unplug the ECM plug that has 2 activation wires for the heavy preheat relays and jumper the relay to battery and the relays click, big fuses are good.
Seems no signal coming from ECM.
So test the intake temp sender with an ohmmeter and it seems to be in the correct range per the temp chart and it does seem to vary in resistance so I assume its good.

[Signature600]

Originally Posted by MF cowboy

Ok so here is the start of the story.
Purchased this machine 7 years ago 2100 eng hrs.
Only info I got from the previous owner about the engine was that Cummins mid Canada was out to turn the power rating up on this thing.
Since I bought it it never really started the best at cold temperatures.
Kind of like a miss but not really.
Definitely temp related, the colder it is the worse it starts.
Sometimes get a check engine light and it dies and other times not.
This occurs near freezing temps.
+20 C and up hardly notice it.
It has a hard time levelling out for the first 30 seconds to a minute but once it smooths out and catches everything seems ok.
CEL always cleared itself.
So this fall before harvest I decide to investigate this see why its not starting the best.
First notice the wait to start lamp only comes on for 3 seconds regardless of the ambient temp.
Start testing with a test light see if I have power to the large grid heater cables at the top of the engine.
None.
So I unplug the ECM plug that has 2 activation wires for the heavy preheat relays and jumper the relay to battery and the relays click, big fuses are good.
Seems no signal coming from ECM.
So test the intake temp sender with an ohmmeter and it seems to be in the correct range per the temp chart and it does seem to vary in resistance so I assume its good.

Sounds like a normal QSC to me.

Without having some way to look at the ECM and see if it is calling for the grids, it's going to be a crapshoot. Any truck guys, or anyone with a diagnostic tool close to you? Also, I think the ECM is usually switching ground, so if you're testing for power, you won't have anything.


Otherwise, wire up a switch to trigger the grid heater relays and see if it starts better. I think you can disable the grid heaters, or adjust the timing in the ECM with Cummins Insite, but it's been a minute since I was plugged into one.

Chris

[MF cowboy]

So did a few overall visual checks to the engine and here is what I notice.
Accumulator has been changed at some point it has a Cummins reman # and a date code of 2006, pressure sender wiring to that accumulator has the updated version.
The valve cover was off at some point and all the paint is knocked off the injector line nuts at the injector end.
Transient suppressor appears original, ECM too.
Current hours 2700
Last fuel filter I did about 400 hrs ago and cleaned the inline screen in the supply line and it was perfect clean.
Fuel from the bulk tank is filtered into the slip tank then filtered again from the slip tank before it enters the combine ever since I owned it , my overhead tank too low to fill direct is the reason.

[MF cowboy]

So a few days into harvest hired man says CEL on.
Seems to be running ok though.
So next day I figured out this self diagnostics button.
It flashes me a code 278 on the red stop engine lamp.
Fuel lift pump circuit.
And yes I can hear no lift pump running at start up.
So off to the neighbours truck shop for diagnostics because he has cummins insite there.
After $650 charge for diagnostic work for the code they come to the conclusion the ecm is partly fried in the timer area.
Says the grid heater and that is all tied together?
Said they ran the lift pump direct with test wire its fine.
And they put a load test on the ECM said they used a headlamp to create a load to check if the ECM is holding.
Cummins reman ECM none in Canada 2 weeks away dealer order part got to come from USA.
Fine order it through reg parts channel $2300 plus programming.
I'll run the lift pump manually at start up with the test wires one min.
Keep this thing going till the part comes

[Signature600]

So, what do you need. Sounds like you have it handled?

Chris

[MF cowboy]

Next time I go to start combine I hook up lift pump wires direct wires start to melt, checked with tech at truck shop is the jumper pigtail wired correct?
Yes he said I double checked.
Turns out the lift pump is funky, heavy draw 13 amps making noise next time seems ok.
Replaced lift pump myself truck shop got it asap.
Ecm ran new lift pump fine.
In further conversation with the tech he said there was a bunch of inactive codes stored in the ECM to do with injection.
However he failed to check on the grid heater situation.
He felt the codes were not cleared the last time someone worked on it.
BUT there was one code a single incident injection control valve 100 hrs ago.

[MF cowboy]

So now I run the machine myself last day of harvest.
Typical poor starting -4C CEL light on then off then it levels out finally CEL off and away we go.
Fully up to temp I notice High idle rpms are varying about 50rpm even with no load and it seems to have a lack power, so now what?
Did this about 3 times in an hour, no CEL.
Ran ok the 10 mile road trip home.
So what is the next step?
Back to the truck shop for more diagnostics?
Or just yank the ECM and get mine send it away and checked?
Or Yank the injection pump?
No one here I tried in Canada can run that pump on a test stand that I know of.
I'm thinking buy a rough 8680 just for the mechanical engine and transplant.

[Signature600]

Originally Posted by MF cowboy

So now I run the machine myself last day of harvest.
Typical poor starting -4C CEL light on then off then it levels out finally CEL off and away we go.
Fully up to temp I notice High idle rpms are varying about 50rpm even with no load and it seems to have a lack power, so now what?
Did this about 3 times in an hour, no CEL.
Ran ok the 10 mile road trip home.
So what is the next step?
Back to the truck shop for more diagnostics?
Or just yank the ECM and get mine send it away and checked?
Or Yank the injection pump?
No one here I tried in Canada can run that pump on a test stand that I know of.
I'm thinking buy a rough 8680 just for the mechanical engine and transplant.

In one post, tell me what problems and codes you have seen.

Chris

[MF cowboy]

Any suggestions would be most welcome.
I'm going to try the self diagnostics button today see if it flashes anything.
Other than that maybe back to the truck shop I guess for diagnostics again?

[Signature600]

Originally Posted by Signature600

In one post, tell me what problems and codes you have seen.

Chris

I will try to help you, but you are all over the dang place. Calm down, and tell me what problem you have today.

Chris

[J-Pipes]

Originally Posted by Signature600

I will try to help you, but you are all over the dang place. Calm down, and tell me what problem you have today.

Chris

Is he not seeing where you're commenting?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[MF cowboy]

Originally Posted by Signature600

I will try to help you, but you are all over the dang place. Calm down, and tell me what problem you have today.

Chris

OK I'm calm.
No worries.
Walked out to the shed now.
Tested the grid heaters by turning on key switch ambient temp is -2C and was -6C overnight.
Got power to the heaters approximately 7 to 10 seconds both of them.
Test light light was on heard the relays actually click.
So I'm kind of leaning to possibly that ECM is ok maybe?
Tried the engine diagnostics button and never got anything flashed to me.
So I'm leaning to taking this thing back to the truck shop and lets get some print out of what codes are in this thing exactly and when?
Prudent course of action?

[MF cowboy]

I guess my main concern now is why do I have a varying rpm at wot situation with a lack of power that I experienced in the last work that machine is going to do this year.

[jasonc]

Is that after you changed the lift pump that melted the wires?

[Signature600]

Originally Posted by MF cowboy

I guess my main concern now is why do I have a varying rpm at wot situation with a lack of power that I experienced in the last work that machine is going to do this year.

Have you cleaned the inline fuel strainer and changed fuel filters? With Lift pump codes, Those would be the first things I'd do.

Do you know about the strainer?
Chris

[MF cowboy]

Originally Posted by jasonc

Is that after you changed the lift pump that melted the wires?

No that was the original pump run with a pigtail temporary testing wire the truck shop made for me.
I had no small pins and connector for testing but they had and were nice enough to manufacture that.

[MF cowboy]

Originally Posted by Signature600

Have you cleaned the inline fuel strainer and changed fuel filters? With Lift pump codes, Those would be the first things I'd do.

Do you know about the strainer?
Chris

Yep I know about the strainer/ fuel filter service was last done about 400hrs ago.