Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech- General Diesel > General Diesel Tech
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

General Diesel Tech Farm equipment, Medium Duty, Big Rigs, and other General discussion can be found in here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2018, 11:20 PM   #15161
SmokinCAT
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar

Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by RascalMafia View Post
With your experience, who manufactured the best OTR engine and why?
Cat builds a good mechanically sound engine with the 3406 base structure, I would have liked to see them actually update the fuel system once in the life of the electronic version of the engine, bosch based HPCR would have been nice to see like was used on the Navistar version of the C15.

Other changes that date back to the inception of the 3406 that could have been carried over from the 1693 were things like the 2 3/8" exhasut manifold studs per cylinder when the 1693 use 3 1/2" studs per cylinder, and then going away from the dual overhead cam of that engine when it was way ahead of its time.

The B/C model fuel pump is ridiculously over built, but from a performance and repair standpoint it is awful unless you have deep pockets, a pump cam for example is more money than an engine cam and it isnt over a foot and a half long, a bosch setup like mack used would have been much easier to service and less money in the long run.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 11:43 PM   #15162
chevota84
 
chevota84's Avatar

Name: chevota84
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prineville, OR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
a bosch setup like mack used would have been much easier to service and less money in the long run.
And flowed more fuel.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
99 Dodge 2500 with stuff
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 11:55 PM   #15163
SmokinCAT
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar

Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevota84 View Post
And flowed more fuel.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Yes, from the performance standpoint this is correct, seeing people give $3600 for a set of aftermarket 13mm barrels and plungers drives that home even more.

People wonder why I built a big cam, and that is why, getting the amount of fuel I have was relatively cheap compared to a B or even an electronic.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:17 AM   #15164
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
I think you would be surprised by the answer to that.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:37 AM   #15165
jfaulkner
 
jfaulkner's Avatar

Name: jfaulkner
Title: Douche Hunter
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
You mean 2008+?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
You are correct, I was messing with this red pos and went brain dead.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessRRA View Post
Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:40 AM   #15166
jfaulkner
 
jfaulkner's Avatar

Name: jfaulkner
Title: Douche Hunter
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
Yes, from the performance standpoint this is correct, seeing people give $3600 for a set of aftermarket 13mm barrels and plungers drives that home even more.
.
Now who would be that stupid? I didn't pay nearly that much for my plasma cutter and it will probably do the same damage.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessRRA View Post
Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:41 AM   #15167
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
Cat builds a good mechanically sound engine with the 3406 base structure, I would have liked to see them actually update the fuel system once in the life of the electronic version of the engine, bosch based HPCR would have been nice to see like was used on the Navistar version of the C15.

Other changes that date back to the inception of the 3406 that could have been carried over from the 1693 were things like the 2 3/8" exhasut manifold studs per cylinder when the 1693 use 3 1/2" studs per cylinder, and then going away from the dual overhead cam of that engine when it was way ahead of its time.

The B/C model fuel pump is ridiculously over built, but from a performance and repair standpoint it is awful unless you have deep pockets, a pump cam for example is more money than an engine cam and it isnt over a foot and a half long, a bosch setup like mack used would have been much easier to service and less money in the long run.
This is my opinion, but it looks like there is pressure at the corporate level to phase out components for non emissions engines.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:42 AM   #15168
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
I think you would be surprised by the answer to that.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Quote didn't work. This was in response to keeping ARD engines alive.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:46 AM   #15169
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
Oh yeah, I'm in training again to day. Let the lobotomy begin. 😁

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 08:49 AM   #15170
SmokinCAT
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar

Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
This is my opinion, but it looks like there is pressure at the corporate level to phase out components for non emissions engines.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
That would be odd to me since I believe they are still selling or offering a few mechanical engines the last I checked.

But in all honesty that wouldn’t surprise me, I only buy gaskets from cat when I open a yellow engine up
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 09:06 AM   #15171
jfaulkner
 
jfaulkner's Avatar

Name: jfaulkner
Title: Douche Hunter
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by RascalMafia View Post
With your experience, who manufactured the best OTR engine and why?
I mostly agree with Cody, it seems with Cat the issues they have can be fixed. The S60 Detroit was a very reliable engine but because of the goofy seals and gaskets there was no fixing the leaks. And the myth that the parts are cheap only applies to the external parts, internal is the same if not more than Cat. With the ISX it's loaded with crap designs. The head around the injector tip is paper thin and crack, they break valves as often as a Cat would blow a HG. The wrist pin is way oversized which makes the distance between the pin and the top of the crown thin and they crack. Belt driven water pump is annoying, if my truck breaks a belt I can keep on trucking.

Cummins has one job and that's to build engines. They should be the best at everything and sadly they're not. I mean with Cat they build equipment and sold truck engines just as a side gig. The only Cat issues we had non stop was head gaskets and since we've been o-ringing the heads, filling the groves and lowering compression on the Acert's, (for anything over stock power) those issues have disappeared. Occasionally they will crack a liner flange but that's pretty rare. I don't know how to fix the ISX issues, I mean valves aren't new technology but it's apparently above Cummins ability. And these issues aren't on modified trucks, about 50% are stock so it's obviously a manufacturing issue. Seeing "made in China" on the new Cummins parts doesn't make me feel any better than these issues will be going away soon.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessRRA View Post
Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 09:09 AM   #15172
jfaulkner
 
jfaulkner's Avatar

Name: jfaulkner
Title: Douche Hunter
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
Oh yeah, I'm in training again to day. Let the lobotomy begin. 😁

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
I'm in training too, but my classroom is way different and way more fun.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessRRA View Post
Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 09:15 AM   #15173
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner View Post
I'm in training too, but my classroom is way different and way more fun.
I do miss being in the field every day.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 09:18 AM   #15174
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
That would be odd to me since I believe they are still selling or offering a few mechanical engines the last I checked.

But in all honesty that wouldn’t surprise me, I only buy gaskets from cat when I open a yellow engine up
We do, but the parts are more costly and more scarce.

We keep having to pull parts from ridiculous places offshore. I think we got a block from Singapore a couple of months ago. I pulled a cam from Russia last summer.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus

Last edited by biggy238; 01-15-2018 at 09:19 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 09:29 AM   #15175
SmokinCAT
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar

Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
We do, but the parts are more costly and more scarce.

We keep having to pull parts from ridiculous places offshore. I think we got a block from Singapore a couple of months ago. I pulled a cam from Russia last summer.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
That is not uncommon with any of the big 3 I believe. We ordered a Holset compressor wheel and it came from Singapore, cam I wanted to try was only in Belgium for my 855.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 10:00 AM   #15176
JWhite
 
JWhite's Avatar

Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner View Post
I mostly agree with Cody, it seems with Cat the issues they have can be fixed. The S60 Detroit was a very reliable engine but because of the goofy seals and gaskets there was no fixing the leaks. And the myth that the parts are cheap only applies to the external parts, internal is the same if not more than Cat. With the ISX it's loaded with crap designs. The head around the injector tip is paper thin and crack, they break valves as often as a Cat would blow a HG. The wrist pin is way oversized which makes the distance between the pin and the top of the crown thin and they crack. Belt driven water pump is annoying, if my truck breaks a belt I can keep on trucking.

Cummins has one job and that's to build engines. They should be the best at everything and sadly they're not. I mean with Cat they build equipment and sold truck engines just as a side gig. The only Cat issues we had non stop was head gaskets and since we've been o-ringing the heads, filling the groves and lowering compression on the Acert's, (for anything over stock power) those issues have disappeared. Occasionally they will crack a liner flange but that's pretty rare. I don't know how to fix the ISX issues, I mean valves aren't new technology but it's apparently above Cummins ability. And these issues aren't on modified trucks, about 50% are stock so it's obviously a manufacturing issue. Seeing "made in China" on the new Cummins parts doesn't make me feel any better than these issues will be going away soon.
While I agree with what you said, you have to remember that Cummins is just a fly on CATs shoulder in the grand scheme of things. Cat can (and probably has) sold engines at a financial loss just to keep sales from competitors.

Cummins likes to do cost downs all the time. Like you said, cheapen up the valves until they break, then that engineering team just blames it on the rod bearings going out and there's piston contact
__________________
GMC with a LiLLY
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 10:12 AM   #15177
biggy238
 
biggy238's Avatar

Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,916
They only have to make it through warranty.
Screw mission criticality.


Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
People tend to be tribal
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 5.4L Auto
-Janus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 10:30 AM   #15178
allan5oh

Name: allan5oh
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 974
Got some cool news. Mike Ryan and his Pikes Peak freightliner are back! He fixed up the truck and will be doing another drifting video soon. Without jumps I hope.

Back in 2016 he had a bad crash on Pikes Peak and his future at the race was uncertain. Turns out it was due to doing a jump in one of the videos. Caused a crack that was missed.

Hopefully he stays safe!
__________________
480 HP to the wheels with a "400 hp" turbo with the fan on to boot. 920f max EGT
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 10:30 AM   #15179
SmokinCAT
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar

Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhite View Post
While I agree with what you said, you have to remember that Cummins is just a fly on CATs shoulder in the grand scheme of things. Cat can (and probably has) sold engines at a financial loss just to keep sales from competitors.

Cummins likes to do cost downs all the time. Like you said, cheapen up the valves until they break, then that engineering team just blames it on the rod bearings going out and there's piston contact
Yeah, because the 855 design isn’t one of the most sold engines all all time...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 11:21 AM   #15180
JWhite
 
JWhite's Avatar

Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
Yeah, because the 855 design isn’t one of the most sold engines all all time...
I'm sure they did, but that's not what I was referring to. That's before my wrenching career started
__________________
GMC with a LiLLY
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 AM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2018, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com