trailrunner
New member
That dyno chart is impressive.
All I can say is turbonetics makes one SWEET looking turbo!!!
- Thread starter csipsd
- Start date
Outlaw1
Resident Redneck
I have two questions and a few comments to make.
1. Why is a standard bearing turbo nearly the same price as a ball bearing setup?
2. Why did the TN turbo suck when it was called a Ball Buster, HTT, etc., and now that it's re-released under the TN banner it's great? Did I miss something?
I'd like to see why that GTP38R surged. I've seen two different trucks locally that normally pull 15,000+ and neither have surge issues, but they both have injectors. One has Stage I's and the other has B-codes. I only pull around 8,000 max, boost is INSTANT with my combination with ZERO surge. I would like to see someone who has a surge issue try to figure out why they surge with some setups.
I'd also like to see a GTP38R vs. TN, Ball Ballbuster, whatever it's called go head to head on the dyno and the track. If someone can provide one for me I'd make some baseline passes with the GTP38R and then swap turbos between rounds and try the TN.
1. Why is a standard bearing turbo nearly the same price as a ball bearing setup?
2. Why did the TN turbo suck when it was called a Ball Buster, HTT, etc., and now that it's re-released under the TN banner it's great? Did I miss something?
I'd like to see why that GTP38R surged. I've seen two different trucks locally that normally pull 15,000+ and neither have surge issues, but they both have injectors. One has Stage I's and the other has B-codes. I only pull around 8,000 max, boost is INSTANT with my combination with ZERO surge. I would like to see someone who has a surge issue try to figure out why they surge with some setups.
I'd also like to see a GTP38R vs. TN, Ball Ballbuster, whatever it's called go head to head on the dyno and the track. If someone can provide one for me I'd make some baseline passes with the GTP38R and then swap turbos between rounds and try the TN.
bbunting
Black Widow Diesel
Last time I checked, its not close. The TN has always been hundreds less.Outlaw1 said:
Yes-you missed that it has been around for years and has performed great the entire time. Until someone finally went against the grain and refuted the claims from some Garrett dealers, people were skeptical. Now everyone knows why certain Garrett dealers bad mouthed them:
no surge period, rebuildable, 91mm wheel
Why do they surge? Why not ask the growing number of surging BB owners? PM Boonman on TDS and see how he likes his (2nd one).
Someone did that work for you.
linky
Here is me running it at the drags-no fuel system, Mini Me's, lift, crew cab short bed, 35's-and it weighs 7500lbs-not 8k. With a good hpop (throws code at WOT), and fuel system, it would be easy 13's. And 94 MPH aint to bad. If this truck had FORGED rods instead of junk PMRs, we could get aggressive with the tune up.
video
Outlaw1
Resident Redneck
Ok, I'll bite. A couple of people have had issues with their turbo. I'm asking WHY are they having issues.
I've seen the TN units for $1,400. The GTP38R's have typically been around $1,650 advertised, but vendors have been known to work with prices. When there's a $250 difference the price should be secondary to performance. I know someone that's a Garrett dealer and he hasn't had a single issue...and his prices are SMOKIN'. Are you still the only TN dealer that can sell their diesel line?
Well there are still lots of vendors selling the Garrett stuff and only one selling TN. I still miss it because I don't see one single truck running a TN replacement turbo and pulling times anywhere close to the smaller, junky GTP38R. If it's junk, then why does it run so good? I'm asking for proof and I'm getting smoke and mirrors. Where are the performance numbers?
Any turbo can be made to surge, and I mean ANY turbo. With the larger wheel in the TN you would expect some more power. Less drive pressure + bigger compressor wheel... Why doesn't it blow the GTP38R away? I'm having troubles understanding that.
Well you're trying to sell TN's. Why don't you tell me why the BB surges? Mine doesn't surge even a little. So far there has been hundreds of BB turbos sold and a SMALL number of people have had issues. AFAIK, there's very few running the TN stuff and some have already had to use the warrantee. Time will tell on that one.
After reading that thread it just opens up millions of questions. First it makes me question the TS 100hp program... What kind of tune-up does that truck have with no boost under 1,800rpms? Why is he reporting a 100 degree drop in EGT's with the GTP38R when the TN has less drive pressure and moves more air? What's involved in his EBPV mod? Is the turbo being flooded with oil? There HAS to be a reason the GTP38R surges on some, but doesn't surge on others. It's not magic. I'm just asking for answers and I'm not getting any.
I have the same injectors and a GTP38R in my crewcab... Wanna race?
bbunting said:
I've seen the TN units for $1,400. The GTP38R's have typically been around $1,650 advertised, but vendors have been known to work with prices. When there's a $250 difference the price should be secondary to performance. I know someone that's a Garrett dealer and he hasn't had a single issue...and his prices are SMOKIN'. Are you still the only TN dealer that can sell their diesel line?
Well there are still lots of vendors selling the Garrett stuff and only one selling TN. I still miss it because I don't see one single truck running a TN replacement turbo and pulling times anywhere close to the smaller, junky GTP38R. If it's junk, then why does it run so good? I'm asking for proof and I'm getting smoke and mirrors. Where are the performance numbers?
Any turbo can be made to surge, and I mean ANY turbo. With the larger wheel in the TN you would expect some more power. Less drive pressure + bigger compressor wheel... Why doesn't it blow the GTP38R away? I'm having troubles understanding that.
Well you're trying to sell TN's. Why don't you tell me why the BB surges? Mine doesn't surge even a little. So far there has been hundreds of BB turbos sold and a SMALL number of people have had issues. AFAIK, there's very few running the TN stuff and some have already had to use the warrantee. Time will tell on that one.
After reading that thread it just opens up millions of questions. First it makes me question the TS 100hp program... What kind of tune-up does that truck have with no boost under 1,800rpms? Why is he reporting a 100 degree drop in EGT's with the GTP38R when the TN has less drive pressure and moves more air? What's involved in his EBPV mod? Is the turbo being flooded with oil? There HAS to be a reason the GTP38R surges on some, but doesn't surge on others. It's not magic. I'm just asking for answers and I'm not getting any.
I have the same injectors and a GTP38R in my crewcab... Wanna race?
trailrunner
New member
You plan on doing a HPOP upgrade?
bbunting
Black Widow Diesel
Outlaw1 said:
Why not ask someone that sells Garrett BB's in another thread-then we'd all know.
This thread was about how TN turbos perform-not about how much Garretts are. I can't list my price, but its $120 less than you posted. There are several TN dealers across the USA. If you want the same turbo, Google GDS, BallBuster, HTT, etc-this is not a newsflash. If you like your Garrett, then stick with it-you got a good deal on used stuff.
WTF are you talking about? Post your dyno numbers. You have forged rods, the truck I referenced has powerdered rods-do you know the tuning difference? There is another PMR truck with mini me's and your turbo, and he ran 13.95 to my 14.10. Close enough for me. Here is the dealer locator for you TN locator
It does move more air, and all things being similar, might or might not make more hp. In towing performance, it does blow it away.
TN warranty is hands down better period. There are only two of my customers that had warrantied turbos-one ate something, and I still warrantied it, the other had loose boot clamps that Garmons fixed. They both had something the next day-no questions asked.
ask a Garrett dealer-maybe you could start a Garrett thread-it surges because of its design-I already suggested you call someone that sells Garrett and ask them-they should be able to answer all your Garrett questions. This was a TN thread.
Sure-post a video and or timeslip. I bet your truck doesn't weigh 8k. If it does, then you are faster than David Lott, Elmo, etc with the same set up-unless there is something else you want to disclose.
Outlaw1
Resident Redneck
bbunting said:
Honestly, I'm not sure what my truck weighs, but it is a full weight crewcab 4X4 F350, fully loaded with leather, running boards, Offroad Package skid plates and all. I've weighed it a few times and it's never the same, with the lightest being 7,400lbs. At the Nationals I got kinda fancy and pulled the tailgate and spare tire, if that counts for anything. Maybe tonight I'll go to one of those certified scales and see what it says.
I would like a better turbo and I'm trying to help you talk me into it. Basically you're saying there's no reason to get rid of my current turbo because the stock replacement TN is not a single lick better than the GTP38R as long as I'm not having surge issues. The only turbo I can see spending money on would require having to go to a turbo that takes a different pedestal, and at this point I don't want to do that.
If you're asking for proof of the times in my sig, I have videos from the DHRA Nationals and I was pitted right next to Mike. I have videos of my dyno pulls, both passes on the track, Elmo's pull, Mike's pull and your dually's pull. The second pass I raced Dart505 and he posted a video of it too. At some point I'm sure you've seen my truck. Actually, I was parked next to Mike and when I came back you had parked your truck in my spot. I own the blue F150 SuperCrew King Ranch and the Amber over Black F350.
Yes, I have ran faster than several people with the same combination. Several people have told me it's one of the fastest Mini-Me/GTP38R trucks around. That sounds kinda odd to me. There has to be some faster trucks out there. I don't know what the difference is because I've never worked on their trucks, only mine. I do plan on running faster once I get some traction devices so I can get aggressive with the launch.
Ok, Ok...I'm going to tell you my REAL secret. Really, the secret ingredient must be my specially built, ultra efficient experimental transmission.
bbunting
Black Widow Diesel
Outlaw
I wouldn't try to sell you something you don't need. The BB/TN are so close, it wouldn't be worth the swap unless you are having issues.
When you are ready to make the next step like Mike, then I have something for that.
I didn't doubt your times, only your weight. My truck weighs 8k for reference. The tailgate is 60 lbs, spare tire is 45.
I wouldn't try to sell you something you don't need. The BB/TN are so close, it wouldn't be worth the swap unless you are having issues.
When you are ready to make the next step like Mike, then I have something for that.
I didn't doubt your times, only your weight. My truck weighs 8k for reference. The tailgate is 60 lbs, spare tire is 45.
csipsd
Mater, like Towmater
DCSpecial said:
I have wounderful PMR's... But thats ok, I will run them until they get tired and go for the long walk...:doh:
As far as the turbo issue's go...
Brian and TN helped me out of a sticky situation, and got me a TN unit to try. The turbo works as sold, a 0 surge, heavy duty, High boost turbo. It is a little slow to spool with the stock injectors, but not so bad that I dont like it, just slower then the BB
The BB is a great turbo too, but mine surged like crazy. Garret is working on fixing it and only time will tell..
I really feel both are the best two turbos you could get for the stock pedistal. The biggest downfall on the Garret is there warranty, they need to step up a little. But to there credit, they are a VERY LARGE company and as you grow people take advantage of you...
I will be dynoing both turbos in a few weeks as soon as I get the BB back. I would love to do a back to back without the injectors... but I dont think I can wait that long to install the injectors!!!LOL So testing will be with single shot 200's:woohoo:
trailrunner
New member
so how does it run with the 200s
Mad_Matt
New member
Well I'm the one that passed the bolt through the compressor. :bang I also now has really started to push the bolt on. Look @ my sig. Just got big oil and have some dyno time next week. We'll see what it does with single shot tunes and Big oil over the #s with split tunes, BDs and no oil in 80T. I also need a bigger boost guage. I can peg mine @ will in the 80e mode. The Truck just towed 19K 3000 miles without a hickup. I took some mixed 4-7% grade hills in WV and the truck did not come out of OD @ 70 with the CC set. Many of them were 3-5 miles long. I think the longest pull was like 8 miles. Now test a BB on i68 West @ 19k and see what happens with BDs abd no oil. The CC just added more fule/boost and the truck pulled on. I also never broke 1300 on the pyro. Now that I have biger sticks and oil to drive them I can rost the tires through a 1-2 shift and bark 3rd. The Trubo also did not surg one bit. I even luged it down to 1200 RPMs a couple of times and it just to see if it would.
lethal5point7
New member
csipsd said:
Can you let me know how that works out for you please? I'd be interested to see how that performs as these turbos are a little slow to spool out of the hole..