Advertisement |
|
|
|
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
|
11-03-2017, 01:01 PM
|
#1
|
Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
|
To bore or not
Guys,
This has been brought to my attention--------
Should I bore a 12 valve block or not?
I have a machine shop that sites NO-------
What is your opinion?
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 01:15 PM
|
#2
|
Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
|
Uh... care to give a little more info?
Your machine shop sounds sketchy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
|
RIP Dex KCCO
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 01:30 PM
|
#3
|
Name: Win slow
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 87
|
I would not be worried about your machine shop as much internet know it alls the marks in your cylinder are not a problem a bore gauge is the best way of knowing if the bore is ok not an eyecrometer the marks are due to distortion and uneven wear but probably won't matter if a ball stone hone was used u wouldn't see it but the low spot would be there with out measurements like out of round and taper you can't make that call from a picture. IMO boring it over the small amount that an oversize piston is will have little or no effect on strength.
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 01:41 PM
|
#4
|
Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 10,869
|
I'm pretty sure the internet know it all types in the other thread agreed to run it and move on with life?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 01:53 PM
|
#5
|
Name: Win slow
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 87
|
sorry you are right I should keep my mouth shut I just get tired of seeing every one second guess the shops they choose and guys on the net seem to be fast to blame the shop of making mistakes
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 02:39 PM
|
#6
|
Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
|
Hell I assumed this was in reference to a whole different engine. I thought it was decided in the other thread that block was fine...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
|
RIP Dex KCCO
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 03:33 PM
|
#7
|
Name: Destroked 450
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Harned,Ky.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 340
|
He's got a thread on the other Cummins site and the precision machinest there are going bonkers about it.
I didn't exactly like the ring grove shadow in #3 but I've put engines together with bigger eye brows.
__________________
Mine: 04 F-450 sc 4x4 fb drw 5.9 12v 215 ppump, zf6, kdp fixed, 3k gsk, AFC Live, super b single, pusher intake, d-celerator ebrake
Hers:2018 F-150 sc 4x4 5.0
Farm trucks: 01 Z71 ext cab, 95 S10, 93 F-800 8.3 Cummins, 87 AM General 5 ton
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 03:38 PM
|
#8
|
Name: DieselWrencher
Title: 6cyl Vette
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mitchellville, Ia
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,886
|
I'm still trying to figure out how a 12v block is prone to breaking at .020 over at any power level below at least 900hp? I've had many, many 12v blocks bored and haven't had any break. The engine in my vette is .040 and I put it in a tractor for a year and it's just fine. I know of a 12v block that was bored and put sleeves in it. It broke but that engine had catastrophic failure and the block shouldn't have been reused. I wouldn't be afraid of boring one for what you're doing.
Does your machine shop use a torque plate? They should if they make claims like this one about blocks breaking at .020.
__________________
1968 Corvette 12v Cummins Compounds 47RH
1976 K30 CC SWB 12v 47RH
2000 Excursion VE 24v 47RH 4x4
1972 K30 Longhorn P-Pumped 24v 47RH Compounds
Last edited by DieselWrencher; 11-03-2017 at 03:40 PM.
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 03:49 PM
|
#9
|
Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 10,869
|
I guess I'm jaded by putting engines together in all sorts of messed up circumstances. I guess there is something to be said for surgical accuracy (precision is not the correct term) but OEM is hideous in terms of perfection on production parts. Hell, Perkins uses 4 different length rods in the same engine. They all run a long time.
I'm not knocking anyone here, so don't take it the wrong way.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
|
|
|
11-03-2017, 04:25 PM
|
#10
|
Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,523
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAYNES WORLD
Guys,
This has been brought to my attention--------
Should I bore a 12 valve block or not?
I have a machine shop that sites NO-------
What is your opinion?
WAYNES WORLD
|
For what it's worth: Out of the countless Cummins B blocks that I've finish honed(Sunnen CK-10; old school!), I'd say 65-70% of the blocks cleaned up perfect by only removing .002" which is where I liked to run them anyway.
__________________
2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
|
|
|
11-04-2017, 12:49 AM
|
#11
|
Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
|
To bore or not
BRE,
Kindly read on-----Eyebrow cylinder-------
Win slow,
The machine shop liked the cylinders after they finished. But facts & figures were not given me. That's part of the issue.
biggy238,
I've been told that many times.
Win slow,
I question my results because I'm not a professional. I also want to learn. Isn't that why we ask questions?
Destroked 450,
I've been told to just put it together. I wasted my summer eating for it. Now the money is getting very tight, but I'm still concerned.
DieselWrencher,
The answer from the machine shop------due to extreme pressure from the above 1,000 HP, flexing takes place on a large scale. The higher up you go the more flexing takes place.
biggy238,
Just like everybody who walks this earth, nobody is perfect. The same can be said for our motors that we try to tear apart every time we mash our trash.------
mhuggler,
Thank you-----
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
|
|
|
11-04-2017, 01:34 AM
|
#12
|
Name: zfaylor
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: P-TOWN!, Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,024
|
Two ways to look at imperfections/shortcuts or whatever you want to call them when assembling an engine or anything really:
-Run it and more than likely be fine.
-Run it and if you do by chance have an issue wonder if it was the imperfection and constantly question your decision to run it.
At the end of the day there is way more room for error in an engine than an inexperienced person may think but that is not to say you can be a sloppy hack and get away with it.
You can run it like it is and question the eyebrow or you can bore it and question the strength of the cylinder wall. Run it and move on if it were mine. Only reason the eyebrow is visible is because it was rigid honed. Lots of people dingle ball their engine so they don't see the imperfections.
__________________
2015 half ton heavy chevy
81 Fairmont LS project
Many yard ornament projects...
North American Turbo
|
|
|
11-04-2017, 02:18 PM
|
#13
|
Name: Cflanery88
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Shelby, MI 49455
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 536
|
Run it, bore it, or toss it and get a different one. Me personally being the perfectionist I am would find a better suited block. It took me a lot of trips back and forth to the Machine shop with my build to get it exactly the way I wanted. Even had to argue measurements with the machinist. But in the end they made it right and it came out how I wanted.
__________________
06 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4L, Wagler +.080 rods, Hobbit tuned, Exergy150% injectors,Polished s475/87 1:0 A/R Engineered Turbo Billet Wheel,arp625s,14mm main studs,PPE dual fuelers,Hamilton 188/220,extreme pushrods,Fleece bypass/drains/distribution block,110#springs.
|
|
|
11-05-2017, 12:44 AM
|
#14
|
Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
|
To bore or not
zfaylor,
Thanks for your info---------I'll run it like I stole it----
Cflanery88,
I wish I could be as good as you in this build. I think I'll try this setup. If I ever do this again I'll have better info on the machine work. If costly to learn on the fly. Thanks,
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
|
|
|
11-07-2017, 08:47 AM
|
#15
|
Name: gman99
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 224
|
I really think the issue was a lack of communication on the part of the machine shop.
My machine shop isn't quick or particularly modern, but if there is an issue or concern they put it to the side then call me and ask what I want to do about the issue. IE how much to take off a cylinder head deck because of shadowing, or whether or not to go farther on a block because of pitting etc.
I'm sure if the machine shop called and said look the block didn't clean up all the way but you're probably better off running with some bore imperfections than going .020 over then at least the choice would have been the OP's.
I honestly would have had to of gone to the machine shop to check it out in person before proceeding. As a matter of fact I've got to run by there this week to check out a marine SBC I'm having bored over.
__________________
98 QCLB 4x4 12V, ARP625+ Studs, 14mm mains NonIC pistons, Ported head, Marine Cam, Hamilton Pushrods and Tappets, BeeHive springs HE351cw over Billet S475, 4KGSK, 5X.018's, 7mm DV's, 24 Degrees Timing, 5" Exhaust, TCS Input, DPC Converter, Firepunk Competition Rebuild Kit
|
|
|
11-08-2017, 12:19 AM
|
#16
|
Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
|
To bore or not
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman99
I really think the issue was a lack of communication on the part of the machine shop.
My machine shop isn't quick or particularly modern, but if there is an issue or concern they put it to the side then call me and ask what I want to do about the issue. IE how much to take off a cylinder head deck because of shadowing, or whether or not to go farther on a block because of pitting etc.
I'm sure if the machine shop called and said look the block didn't clean up all the way but you're probably better off running with some bore imperfections than going .020 over then at least the choice would have been the OP's.
I honestly would have had to of gone to the machine shop to check it out in person before proceeding. As a matter of fact I've got to run by there this week to check out a marine SBC I'm having bored over.
|
gman99,
I wish I had your machine shop doing my work.
But you are right about the boring. As stated before, they stated the flexing would be too great after boring. I talked to the machinist on the phone.
I appreciate your discussing with him.
Let me know,
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 PM.
|