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10-30-2017, 12:41 AM
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#1
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Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
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Posts: 413
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Eyebrow cylinder
Guys,
Has anyone ever heard of a "eyebrow" cylinder finish, see photo?
The machine shop said it was no problem--------
WAYNES WORLD
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I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
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10-30-2017, 12:10 PM
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#2
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
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Location: Just North of Wrong
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Take it with a grain of salt, but I've never seen it, and couldn't find it online when I searched. I'm not even certain how that would happen
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10-30-2017, 12:27 PM
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#3
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
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Location: Western Pa.
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I never heard the term either, but it looks like the cylinders were honed, not bored. That's maybe as far as they wanted to go with the hone to stay in spec.
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10-30-2017, 12:32 PM
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#4
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Name: Mark Nixon
Title: No Savior among the flesh
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Location: Brownville, Nebraska
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IMO, that should have been bored, rather than just "cleaned up".
The "eyebrow" is the result of trying to offset hone out the deepest wear, hoping you'll catch the shallowest side while doing it.
Machinists try this on V-8s a lot, with similar results.
Mark.
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10-31-2017, 01:05 AM
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#5
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Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
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Eyebrow cylinder
biggy238,
Thanks for the effort------
Snedge,
I'm leaning your way. They may have had the pistons before the machine work was started.
Mark Nixon,
I'm wondering if they rushed the job or trying to keep in spec? My concern, is it OK? It sounds like this has been done before. What is the result? Is it still able to work well?
blackmega3500,
Good but how will this effect my engine is my concern?
Thanks for the info Guys-----
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
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10-31-2017, 04:45 AM
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#6
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Name: badbowtie
Title: custom engine daydreamer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Plainfield IN
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Posts: 475
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I wouldn't be happy if it was mine. Mark said it is from offset honing the cylinders, save a buck or do it right. I would want it bored with larger piston and have it true center. It can't be good for high performance or long life either one. I also don't think I would continue to use that shop , if they didn't discuss this with you.
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1991 D350 5spd
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10-31-2017, 06:36 AM
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#7
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Offset Boring Cylinders - Yellow Bullet Forums
Free Power! offset cylinders explained | RideApart
I may be misunderstanding, but the only way to get that pattern is partial contact of a hone? (offset as Mark called it)
Most of what I found this morning is moving the cylinder. Honing it would create an elipse.
I would run it just to see what happened.
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Last edited by biggy238; 10-31-2017 at 06:38 AM.
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10-31-2017, 07:57 AM
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#8
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
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It's how the cylinder was worn and the hone couldn't make it to the low spot, can you feel the depression with your finger. It's not ideal but I bet will run fine.
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10-31-2017, 09:33 AM
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#9
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
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Posts: 5,565
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It was clearly offset honed, my concern with this instance is that it appears the top and possibly second compression ring will pass the depression while reaching TDC.
Last edited by Smokem; 10-31-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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10-31-2017, 10:57 AM
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#10
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,868
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Clearly....
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__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
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10-31-2017, 12:08 PM
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#11
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Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
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Posts: 413
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jasonc,
I can slightly feel the spot.
Smokem,
The shop said it would be OK. I'm concerned but we'll see what happens-------
Thanks, WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
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10-31-2017, 12:20 PM
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#12
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Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
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Eyebrow cylinder
Guys,
A close up------
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
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11-02-2017, 12:09 PM
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#13
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Name: WAYNES WORLD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Justice, Il.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 413
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Eyebrow cylinder
Guys,
I talked to the machine shop about this---------
This is their reply------
Good to talk to you today, as we discussed the eyebrow is not a issues in this application because the cylinder is going to distort in use, the only way to fix this would be to hone the block until it is gone and then it would have excessive clearance and the rings would not seat well in that case or bore the cylinder bigger and put oversize pistons in it, the downside to that is the cylinder wall will be thinner and this engine has a problem with breaking cylinder anyway, so this is the lesser of all the evils is leave the eyebrow there, we have seen this a number of times at several different power levels and it is not an issue and that is why the decision was made to let it be like it is.
Thank you, if you have any other questions please let me know
So it looks like the cylinders will stay this way due to flexing in the cylinder walls would be weakened by a .020 bore. It would give way to thinner walls flexing which would promote failure.
WAYNES WORLD
__________________
I2v, SD twins, marine pistons, hamilton cam, Farrell tuned pump 13mm, my plate, 24*, Goerend trans, VB & TD con, Cal trac, painted & coated engine, nice leather, -- Now a Lil Pete body
2008 6.7 just added EFI Live & RevMax complete with Goerend Triple, Flex plate
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11-02-2017, 01:10 PM
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#14
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Name: 9724VF350
Title: Tractor Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
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Posts: 2,784
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Well they're response is kind of bs, but they're not completely wrong. I assume they just ran a hone in your block. The only way to make it go away is to bore to .020. It's nothing that they did incorrectly.
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11-02-2017, 01:20 PM
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#15
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
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Posts: 18,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9724VF350
Well they're response is kind of bs, but they're not completely wrong. I assume they just ran a hone in your block. The only way to make it go away is to bore to .020. It's nothing that they did incorrectly.
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That was established early in the thread.
It looks to me like there was a set of standard pistons coated and waiting on the machine work. So kind of ass backward. The machine shop had to work with what they had to work with.
I'm sure piston to wall clearance is on the loose side, but hopefully not too loose.
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11-02-2017, 01:45 PM
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#16
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Name: 9724VF350
Title: Tractor Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
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Posts: 2,784
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Hitting them with a berry hone after rigid honing is time well spent to eliminate questions.
__________________
97 F350 4X4 CC Dually 5spd 24V 913 S300/HT3B Ranch Hand.
Playtoy-Oliver 1655. 12V now , 13mm, S475
Wife's ride-03 Excursion 12V swap in the works.
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11-02-2017, 01:53 PM
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#17
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 18,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9724VF350
Hitting them with a berry hone after rigid honing is time well spent to eliminate questions.
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Agreed. It would look way better than an "eyebrow", and this thread would have never happened.
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11-02-2017, 04:08 PM
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#18
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 10,868
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I thought that at first also, but didn't want to suggest it out of turn. I berry honed the **** out of mine...
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__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
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11-02-2017, 05:16 PM
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#19
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,412
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It needs to have loose piston to wall clearance anyway, I know you run it hard. Is the reason for the rebuild cause it stuck/scored a piston?
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11-02-2017, 05:24 PM
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#20
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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And I know it's not ideal and could leak past the rings there, I'd run it.
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