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08-14-2017, 04:05 PM
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#1
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Name: 5.9
Title: I JUST WANT TO GO FAST
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Posts: 37
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Cummins Timing
Hey guys I am tuning my truck with the Smarty UDC and wondering what is the safest MAX timing that I could use for a hot street tune. I will be driving this tune most every day but I don't wont to lift the head either. Any suggestions??
__________________
2005 CTD 2500, 62/65 over 75/96 compounds, 100% Exergy, 425 ARP, 3250 SBDD, pushrods, valve springs, FASS 150 w/sump, 5" magnaflow, 24" FTE resonator, 85% over dragon fire CP3, Smarty UDC Pro RT.
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08-14-2017, 10:38 PM
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#2
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Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: F Burg Ohio
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Posts: 1,817
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With the setup in your sig? How much pulse?
I use 10° for every 1000us @ 3000rpm as a starting point. Your setup may like more / less. The only real way to find out is on the track or dyno.
__________________
GMC with a LiLLY
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08-21-2017, 11:06 AM
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#3
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Name: 5.9
Title: I JUST WANT TO GO FAST
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Posts: 37
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Right now it is maxed out at 1700us and I made 680 hp.
__________________
2005 CTD 2500, 62/65 over 75/96 compounds, 100% Exergy, 425 ARP, 3250 SBDD, pushrods, valve springs, FASS 150 w/sump, 5" magnaflow, 24" FTE resonator, 85% over dragon fire CP3, Smarty UDC Pro RT.
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08-21-2017, 07:05 PM
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#4
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Name: Dom_c13b
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Freeport, Maine
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Posts: 125
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What do you mean maxed out? Is that all the pump would do? And what kind of RPM do you want to run?
__________________
06 SCLB. Built 48re, ATS Twin cp3, s369sxe, Fass 220, Hamilton 188/220, 110# springs, DDP 220's, Big valve head, .40 over, 12v rods, balanced rotating assembly. etc..
TenacityTuning@Yahoo.com
facebook.com/TenacityTuning
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08-22-2017, 09:07 AM
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#5
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Name: 5.9
Title: I JUST WANT TO GO FAST
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Posts: 37
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I mean that right now I have the tune at the highest point is 1700us. I know I could go a lot more but I don't want to blow it up. The pump is fine past 800hp I just am looking for a good fun to drive street tune and max rpm would be about 3500. I just don't want to push the timing to far where I will do something bad to the motor. I am pretty new to the tuning scene.
__________________
2005 CTD 2500, 62/65 over 75/96 compounds, 100% Exergy, 425 ARP, 3250 SBDD, pushrods, valve springs, FASS 150 w/sump, 5" magnaflow, 24" FTE resonator, 85% over dragon fire CP3, Smarty UDC Pro RT.
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08-22-2017, 11:39 AM
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#6
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Name: takedown95
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Posts: 2,841
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That's a longer duration for a street truck. In order to get all that fuel in you would have to have about 30* of timing at 3000 rpms. Not sure I'd crank it up to 30* though.
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08-22-2017, 01:32 PM
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#7
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Name: 5.9
Title: I JUST WANT TO GO FAST
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Posts: 37
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That duration is shorter then a stock burst......... And I am just looking for a safe timing number so I don't blow the head off but can still mess around if I want.
__________________
2005 CTD 2500, 62/65 over 75/96 compounds, 100% Exergy, 425 ARP, 3250 SBDD, pushrods, valve springs, FASS 150 w/sump, 5" magnaflow, 24" FTE resonator, 85% over dragon fire CP3, Smarty UDC Pro RT.
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08-22-2017, 01:41 PM
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#8
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Name: Dom_c13b
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Freeport, Maine
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 125
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At 3500RPM and a 1700uS you only need 35.7* of total injetor on time to get all of the fuel in. I would have your timing at about 21* BTDC on that tune.
__________________
06 SCLB. Built 48re, ATS Twin cp3, s369sxe, Fass 220, Hamilton 188/220, 110# springs, DDP 220's, Big valve head, .40 over, 12v rods, balanced rotating assembly. etc..
TenacityTuning@Yahoo.com
facebook.com/TenacityTuning
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08-22-2017, 01:44 PM
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#9
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Name: Dom_c13b
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Freeport, Maine
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Posts: 125
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That's at 3500RPM
__________________
06 SCLB. Built 48re, ATS Twin cp3, s369sxe, Fass 220, Hamilton 188/220, 110# springs, DDP 220's, Big valve head, .40 over, 12v rods, balanced rotating assembly. etc..
TenacityTuning@Yahoo.com
facebook.com/TenacityTuning
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08-24-2017, 11:21 AM
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#10
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Name: 5.9
Title: I JUST WANT TO GO FAST
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Posts: 37
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So how do you know that it will need that timing?? Is there a secret equation to find this stuff out or is just just know how??
__________________
2005 CTD 2500, 62/65 over 75/96 compounds, 100% Exergy, 425 ARP, 3250 SBDD, pushrods, valve springs, FASS 150 w/sump, 5" magnaflow, 24" FTE resonator, 85% over dragon fire CP3, Smarty UDC Pro RT.
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08-24-2017, 01:06 PM
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#11
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.9
So how do you know that it will need that timing?? Is there a secret equation to find this stuff out or is just just know how??
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If you gather up some information, you could build a calculator.
You'd need to base it on rotation and how that effects the distance of the piston from the injector nozzle. You'd need to know your spray angle and bowl size. Then you'd start at a case where engine speed in approaching zero. At that point, factor in how long it takes fuel to travel at a given pressure, and that'll make you need more advance based on rpm. Knowing the time between electrical input to the injector and actual injection event (needle moving) would be helpful too.
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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08-24-2017, 01:49 PM
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#12
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Name: takedown95
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Posts: 2,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.9
That duration is shorter then a stock burst......... And I am just looking for a safe timing number so I don't blow the head off but can still mess around if I want.
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It's just not an efficient duration. That was my point.
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08-24-2017, 02:00 PM
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#13
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Name: Dom_c13b
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Freeport, Maine
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 125
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That is a very efficient duration. And as far as figuring out the amount of degrees of injector on it's a fairly simple equation. Take your desired max rpm multiply by 360, divide by 60 and multiply by the desired duration. So 3500x360=1260000 divide that by 60 and you get 21000. 21000x.0017 equals 35.7* of injector on time. I then multiply that by .6 and get 21.42. That would be 60% of your injection event going in before top dead center at 3500rpm and a 1700uS pulse.
__________________
06 SCLB. Built 48re, ATS Twin cp3, s369sxe, Fass 220, Hamilton 188/220, 110# springs, DDP 220's, Big valve head, .40 over, 12v rods, balanced rotating assembly. etc..
TenacityTuning@Yahoo.com
facebook.com/TenacityTuning
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08-25-2017, 04:47 AM
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#14
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Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: F Burg Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhite
With the setup in your sig? How much pulse?
I use 10° for every 1000us @ 3000rpm as a starting point. Your setup may like more / less. The only real way to find out is on the track or dyno.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom_c13b
That is a very efficient duration. And as far as figuring out the amount of degrees of injector on it's a fairly simple equation. Take your desired max rpm multiply by 360, divide by 60 and multiply by the desired duration. So 3500x360=1260000 divide that by 60 and you get 21000. 21000x.0017 equals 35.7* of injector on time. I then multiply that by .6 and get 21.42. That would be 60% of your injection event going in before top dead center at 3500rpm and a 1700uS pulse.
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Using your equation at 3000 rpm you get 18.3°. Pretty close
__________________
GMC with a LiLLY
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08-25-2017, 12:47 PM
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#15
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Name: Dom_c13b
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Freeport, Maine
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 125
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Yes, that's what I get at 3000rpm. I usually don't run 60% BTDC until 3000rpm and after. On pull trucks I'm up to around 75% BTDC. 60% is good for a street truck though.
JWhite, I also use your method for a quick reference sometimes. I just figured I'd show these guys that there is some method to the madness.
__________________
06 SCLB. Built 48re, ATS Twin cp3, s369sxe, Fass 220, Hamilton 188/220, 110# springs, DDP 220's, Big valve head, .40 over, 12v rods, balanced rotating assembly. etc..
TenacityTuning@Yahoo.com
facebook.com/TenacityTuning
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08-25-2017, 01:19 PM
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#16
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Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: F Burg Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,817
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Of course, there's a formula for everything!
__________________
GMC with a LiLLY
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08-28-2017, 11:31 AM
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#17
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Name: 5.9
Title: I JUST WANT TO GO FAST
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2017
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 37
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This is great stuff thank you guys!!!
__________________
2005 CTD 2500, 62/65 over 75/96 compounds, 100% Exergy, 425 ARP, 3250 SBDD, pushrods, valve springs, FASS 150 w/sump, 5" magnaflow, 24" FTE resonator, 85% over dragon fire CP3, Smarty UDC Pro RT.
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