New Chassis Dyno Record!
- Thread starter TTR 21
- Start date
If you think he's just sat back, put big dyno numbers up and not been worried about going fast. Then I think someone else needs to pull their head out of their ass. I'd say he's tried more trans and converters than I ever have and I've been through plenty. It just hasn't worked out for him yet. Just like it didn't work for me all last season. It happens and gremlins can be a nightmare to fix. I've personally helped him change a couple trans and put stuff right from my truck that went consistent 9.1 on fuel round after round and watched it fail on his truck before even getting to the track. Something funky is going on and he's dedicated to going fast. Give the guy a break. Most of us would have gave up by now. I know I would have.
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Big Blue24
Comp Diesel Sponsor
I used to be a big "Hater" of corrected dyno numbers, but there is one important lesson I've learned after owning and operating a dyno at high altitude that lessens my "hate" of correction factors:
Turbo-Charged vehicles, be it gas or diesel, with a properly "conservatively" sized turbo setup, like an OEM application at OEM boost/power levels do seem to make roughly the same raw HP numbers here as they do at sea level, within 0 to 5% on most setups despite the weather station/density altitude calling for 17% to 20% here at 5700'.
The engineering explanation on Borg's site seems to be the general consensus: the turbo is able to spin faster at high altitude due to thinner air and is able to almost entirely create the same mass flow of air into the engine and therefore power numbers are very similar. Turbo maps demonstrate that compressor efficiency declines as pressure ratio increases and pressure ratio does increase as you go up in altitude/lower turbo inlet pressure. On an OEM application, they generally run right in the middle of the compressor map and so the increased compressor RPM does not create a significant efficiency loss.
On a maximum effort truck, pushing turbos to the limits of their compressor maps, or pushing the compressor flow to the maximum available, the higher speed compressor does experience a significant efficiency and mass flow decline with lower inlet pressure/higher pressure ratio across the compressor.
Case in point: My Junker Drag Truck that is airflow limited 60mm over 83mm picks up significant power going down in elevation because it runs at the limit of its "undersized" turbo setup. Back when the truck was "fuel-limited" and would clean up down at lower altitude, it experienced almost zero power loss between 2000' Vegas and 4600' Utah.
My 98' 12V daily driver with a 63/S480 turbo setup pushing 585 uncorrected HP or 685 corrected HP picks up very very little down at sea level, maybe 3% or so for a legitimate 600 uncorrected HP. Spool increases, torque #increase, but peak power is roughly the same because the big 120 lb/min S480 running at a 3:1 to 3.5:1 pressure ratio is right in the middle of the compressor flow map and the extra RPM/pressure ratio does not create a significant efficiency loss at altitude.
If you'd like to see another real-world article, read up on the test Truck Trend or Diesel Power Mag did a few years back when the new 400HP Ford 6.7 came out. They pitted it against the 397HP Dmax and 285HP Cummins on a max effort tow test through Eisenhower Tunnel at 10k elevation. The Ford came-in dead last despite the highest factory "sea level" HP numbers. Now it is possible that the Dmax was conservative on their power rating, or that the Cummins had perfect gearing (I tease), but not 25% conservative or whatever the final results were. Later, I assume due to Ford's embarrassment, another towing test was held down near the low altitude Colorado river in Arizona and the Ford came to life. The biggest difference was the factory Dmax had "reserve" capacity in the factory turbo and the Ford sequential turbo was maxed out at sea level. Ford has since fixed the problem with a turbo upgrade, but the truth of the matter, ELEVATION DOES MATTER, how much depends on the individual truck combination.
From our in-house testing, racing at various elevations, etc. we have come up with legitimate correction factors that translate to the real world, but they are still truck combo/turbo setup dependent. The Junker picks up 5% going down in altitude from 5700' to 2800', boost pressure goes up a bit as well. Next weekend in Texas at the World Finals, hopefully we'll get enough data to make some HP conclusions between 5700' and 80' or whatever the altitude is there in Ennis.
Turbo-Charged vehicles, be it gas or diesel, with a properly "conservatively" sized turbo setup, like an OEM application at OEM boost/power levels do seem to make roughly the same raw HP numbers here as they do at sea level, within 0 to 5% on most setups despite the weather station/density altitude calling for 17% to 20% here at 5700'.
The engineering explanation on Borg's site seems to be the general consensus: the turbo is able to spin faster at high altitude due to thinner air and is able to almost entirely create the same mass flow of air into the engine and therefore power numbers are very similar. Turbo maps demonstrate that compressor efficiency declines as pressure ratio increases and pressure ratio does increase as you go up in altitude/lower turbo inlet pressure. On an OEM application, they generally run right in the middle of the compressor map and so the increased compressor RPM does not create a significant efficiency loss.
On a maximum effort truck, pushing turbos to the limits of their compressor maps, or pushing the compressor flow to the maximum available, the higher speed compressor does experience a significant efficiency and mass flow decline with lower inlet pressure/higher pressure ratio across the compressor.
Case in point: My Junker Drag Truck that is airflow limited 60mm over 83mm picks up significant power going down in elevation because it runs at the limit of its "undersized" turbo setup. Back when the truck was "fuel-limited" and would clean up down at lower altitude, it experienced almost zero power loss between 2000' Vegas and 4600' Utah.
My 98' 12V daily driver with a 63/S480 turbo setup pushing 585 uncorrected HP or 685 corrected HP picks up very very little down at sea level, maybe 3% or so for a legitimate 600 uncorrected HP. Spool increases, torque #increase, but peak power is roughly the same because the big 120 lb/min S480 running at a 3:1 to 3.5:1 pressure ratio is right in the middle of the compressor flow map and the extra RPM/pressure ratio does not create a significant efficiency loss at altitude.
If you'd like to see another real-world article, read up on the test Truck Trend or Diesel Power Mag did a few years back when the new 400HP Ford 6.7 came out. They pitted it against the 397HP Dmax and 285HP Cummins on a max effort tow test through Eisenhower Tunnel at 10k elevation. The Ford came-in dead last despite the highest factory "sea level" HP numbers. Now it is possible that the Dmax was conservative on their power rating, or that the Cummins had perfect gearing (I tease), but not 25% conservative or whatever the final results were. Later, I assume due to Ford's embarrassment, another towing test was held down near the low altitude Colorado river in Arizona and the Ford came to life. The biggest difference was the factory Dmax had "reserve" capacity in the factory turbo and the Ford sequential turbo was maxed out at sea level. Ford has since fixed the problem with a turbo upgrade, but the truth of the matter, ELEVATION DOES MATTER, how much depends on the individual truck combination.
From our in-house testing, racing at various elevations, etc. we have come up with legitimate correction factors that translate to the real world, but they are still truck combo/turbo setup dependent. The Junker picks up 5% going down in altitude from 5700' to 2800', boost pressure goes up a bit as well. Next weekend in Texas at the World Finals, hopefully we'll get enough data to make some HP conclusions between 5700' and 80' or whatever the altitude is there in Ennis.
rightwinger
New member
This guy and his truck are a joke. Everytime his false dyno numbers come into question he always has his cronies get on here and defend him. The truth is he is not concerned about going fast, he is concerned about being able to hold a "world record", which happens to be a complete BS record. If he was concerned about going fast, he would have addressed these transmission issues along the way instead of continuing to pump more fuel and air into a truck that keeps tearing up drivelines. There are plenty of people out there who have trucks with 1/2 the power he has and are laying down some impressive ET's......obviously this is not what he wants, he wants to be able to compete in dyno events strictly, and that's fine however no correction factor is needed, and you don't need your buddies to get on here and try defend you. The sad thing is, his truck most likely would lay down some impressive numbers on a dyno, but the fact he is allowing them to essentially add free HP to his actual number is diminishing everything he has worked to achieve. Who cares if the air is thinner in one location???? The effect it will have will be the SAME on every truck dyno'ed at that location, so again, why is this such an issue if you truly believe you have a world record dyno truck?
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YoungDiesel27
Never Enough Time
Who cares that it's corrected? Everyone gave him shi! about how only way it put down big numbers was rigged by their dyno correction factor, or when the east coast guys dyno with him we will see... They did dyno them all on the same day, same dyno, same altitude, same CF, and Shawn out performed everyone on that portion of the event. Anyone who has ever been around these things knows how much extra weight kills parts. Eventually they will go fast, but I think they will have to get real light to go fast consistently.
rightwinger
New member
I'm not saying he wouldn't have still won, but why even use a correction factor other than it gives him the ability to bolster a "record" that wasn't really ever achieved. These correction factors are starting to remind me of entitlement benefits...."Its not fair that location has thicker air, we need to make it equal everywhere and give us pitty points on the dyno so we can have what they have at lower elevations"...lol.
YoungDiesel27
Never Enough Time
I don't care for the Correction factors at all but a dyno is a tool for comparing and tuning not for racing. I mean nobody really cares or where do they keep this "record", maybe it's just his personal record for his truck using the dyno to compare it to his previous runs on his own truck which is what the dyno is designed to do anyhow.
rightwinger
New member
Apparently Baca cares about this record because I have one of the Diesel mags that he has proudly had his truck in it claiming the BS Horsepower numbers as if its a legit world record. You are right, it's a tool for tuning and adjusting your truck, apparently someone needs to tell him this.
Anyone that has a clue and actually competes doesn't question the numbers he puts down. And those people are the top racers in the industry. He's got a hp making machine that if he gets a trans to work will be stupid fast. It's happened before ON THE TRACK. But many don't know because they only read the web and don't see it out testing. So carry on... But give credit where it's due. And it's due in this case. Not a nut swinger or anything else. Don't have a single II part on my truck. Facts are facts though. Just sayin... I assume their 2000+ hp they put up on their dmax is bs too?
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TTR 21
Human Spear
Just so everyone is clear whether it makes a difference or not this was done on Custom Autos Dyno which was the same Dyno from UCC and was done at weekend on the Edge. They were operating the dyno as well.
This post had nothing to do with his racing nor anything else. This was simply a re-share from a post Custom Auto and Edge both made from their event.
Personally people need to quit worrying about everyone else and focus on their own builds and accomplishments and work on pushing the diesel industry forward rather than calling someone out and trying to belittle them.
This post had nothing to do with his racing nor anything else. This was simply a re-share from a post Custom Auto and Edge both made from their event.
Personally people need to quit worrying about everyone else and focus on their own builds and accomplishments and work on pushing the diesel industry forward rather than calling someone out and trying to belittle them.
TTR 21
Human Spear
His truck was originally built to dyno and make big power. It accomplished that. He has now been working all season to transition the truck over to drag racing which comes with a lot of changes. These changes arent going to happen over night nor work the first time out. Shawn is very motivated to make his truck go fast believe me. Ive seen him spend more time and energy cutting weight out of the truck, changing transmissions at the track multiple times with the help of Anthony Reams and others to try and get him to make a decent pass. Anthonys transmission has proven itself and when put in Shawns truck wouldn't even move the truck. Like said above we have issues and gremlins we are dedicated to fixing.
J-Pipes
Active member
I'm not discounting that his engine makes power, just that in my opinion, with the support network he seems to have, I don't see any reason he shouldn't be making faster times. Perhaps he has bad tuning? Maybe he's just a bad driver, insert jokes about the wreck here. But I don't really buy the weight excuse, I mean hell, Firepunk went into the 9's last yr with 8k lbs. Maybe he should swallow some pride, and start talking to others that have already done it. Yes I know Anthony is very fast and accomplished, but maybe the magic recipe can be found with talking to others as well?
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chevota84
New member
But that's the point, applying an n/a correction is exactly as inaccurate as no correction.
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Drothgeb
Almost Fast-N-Loud
Ya know, I'm going to start adding a financial CF to my time slips. I mean really, if I had another $25-50K to put into my truck, I'd easily be going another second or two faster.
As far as dynos, the guy's truck obviously makes a ton of power. But any "World Record" attempt should be done at low altitude where's it an actual number, instead of some theoretical calculation. Also, using a CF with Nitrous, that's a joke right?
As far as dynos, the guy's truck obviously makes a ton of power. But any "World Record" attempt should be done at low altitude where's it an actual number, instead of some theoretical calculation. Also, using a CF with Nitrous, that's a joke right?
Big Blue24
Comp Diesel Sponsor
And there-in lies the problem, World Record, yet there isn't a "sanctioning body" or rules/standards. I know for uncorrected HP, my Mustang dyno is tighter/more stingy than say an inertia-only Dyno Jet. So if there was a set of rules, and Dyno Jet was the baseline standard, Superflows get 5% added to their raw numbers and Mustangs get 6% added to their raw numbers.
NHRA world records are never set at high altitude Denver/ Bandimere, but there are "track records" which still isn't always fair because weather conditions change, but they surely don't correct ET or MPH records for weather. This means Bandimere will never hold the world record for any drag racing class.
That said, because there isn't a "sanctioning body" what gives anyone the right to complain about correction factors? Shame on you low-landers for not attending high altitude/high correction factor dyno events where you have the best chances of setting a world record for light duty diesel pickup truck corrected chassis dyno horsepower. Technically the NWDC is the closest thing to a sanctioning body, so NWDC rules should apply, and they choose to use corrected numbers.
As far as strategy, if I were planning to make a World Record attempt, I'd get an event organized up over 10,000 elevation so we could use a nasty fat 45% correction factor.
If the sanctioning body/rules do not specify a certain chassis dyno, Power Driven held the chassis dyno record for several months last year till UCC in May 2016 with its VB New Beetle 1.9L TDI with an impressive corrected 2396 HP!!! What's crazy, we haven't ran the bug for almost a year, but it's still in second place!!!!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO-J_MN3EI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO-J_MN3EI[/ame]
DIESEL_POWER
NGM Diesel
Well said, however there is a lot one can add from this conversation, you touched on the main point , every combo is different and every result will also be different. The more hp you make the bigger the difference can be. We have learned what does not make sense, to paper pushers, but to professional race teams is common knowledge.
BTW ennis is 538' static above sea level, last time we were there the D.A was 2500' above sea level. The elevation alone doesn't tell the whole story, it's the atmospheric conditions and the air quality combined with elevation that matters to all combustion engines.
JQmile
Comp Diesel Sponsor
Has anyone else ever put down 2000hp uncorrected?
As far as track times, I am sure he is just as disappointed as everyone else in not getting a good number. I did hear him say he got a 1.5X 60ft before the trans broke, so there's hope. I think he needs to try it at 1000-1500hp first to see if he can get it to live.
As far as track times, I am sure he is just as disappointed as everyone else in not getting a good number. I did hear him say he got a 1.5X 60ft before the trans broke, so there's hope. I think he needs to try it at 1000-1500hp first to see if he can get it to live.
zfaylor
Comp Diesel Sponsor
So much whining and biching and moaning. I think the guys a total dbag but he showed up to UCC and competed and spanked everybody on the dyno. Dyno is his game. I think it is stupid but I can't trash the numbers he puts down because I flat out haven't ever come close to his numbers. I used to trash them as they are heavily corrected until he showed up where all of the heavy hitters were and backed all of it up.
Diesel motorsports are small, and Baca has probably done more as far as promoting it than anybody else in this thread in the past year. I see his truck pop up in my social media feeds more than any other truck 10 fold. He went all the way to Terre Haute Indiana with his truck and put it on the dyno and showed his face.
Meanwhile, guys with 500hp trucks, that never compete or do anything positive for the sport, are here complaining that he set a new personal record. Again, I am not a fan of the guy but he is growing on me. Simply because he makes an effort to improve his truck and improve the sport in general every time I turn around. He isn't the traditional good ol boy type which is what bothers most I would venture to say. Somehow I don't think complaining on CompD is doing very much good for anybody, though...
Diesel motorsports are small, and Baca has probably done more as far as promoting it than anybody else in this thread in the past year. I see his truck pop up in my social media feeds more than any other truck 10 fold. He went all the way to Terre Haute Indiana with his truck and put it on the dyno and showed his face.
Meanwhile, guys with 500hp trucks, that never compete or do anything positive for the sport, are here complaining that he set a new personal record. Again, I am not a fan of the guy but he is growing on me. Simply because he makes an effort to improve his truck and improve the sport in general every time I turn around. He isn't the traditional good ol boy type which is what bothers most I would venture to say. Somehow I don't think complaining on CompD is doing very much good for anybody, though...