Head gasket/fire ring break in?

[dodge359]

I just finished my twins tonight and was wondering what the guys with fire rings are doing in the way of retorques. I dont want to have to do this again for a while. How long until I can do some tuning.

[WideOpenThrottl]

With my second set of o-rings.. retorque after full warm up, very light driving for one tank (in my case, plowing the drive way nice and easy) then retorque. I put about another 1000miles on it with a bit of abuse, not much though, then another retorque, some more miles, then another retorque. Its been holding strong to 75psi.
Tim.

[RacinDuallie]

Off topic- sorry- But I'm curious- what size turbine housing do ya have on that 3B?

[dodge359]

26cm. I might be in the market for the 23cm if this ones to laggy. Time will tell.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by dodge359

I just finished my twins tonight and was wondering what the guys with fire rings are doing in the way of retorques. I dont want to have to do this again for a while. How long until I can do some tuning.

I ran the 1/4 the day after the install of the firerings. I was told no other retorques were required with 14mm studs.

[impmouse]

did three heat cycles and torques ... and hammer down went to the track and let her rip

[dodge359]

Originally Posted by Mike D

I ran the 1/4 the day after the install of the firerings. I was told no other retorques were required with 14mm studs.

Is it still alive? How many miles/passes do you have on it?

I have retorqued once after a heat cycle and 5 times before I even fire the engine. 12vers are a miserable SOB on three of the studs, 2 where the injector lines cross and i where the return line crosses.

How much does it change the valves?

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by dodge359

Is it still alive? How many miles/passes do you have on it?

I have retorqued once after a heat cycle and 5 times before I even fire the engine. 12vers are a miserable SOB on three of the studs, 2 where the injector lines cross and i where the return line crosses.

How much does it change the valves?

It's still alive... I have around 15 passes or so.. 1/2 of those have been with nitrous.

[thedieselbunch]

Ok..I guess we need to do the fire ring instead of the O ring'd head...Installed a PDR port polished O ringed head using a Cummins gasket and 12mm ARP head studs. Brought it up to to normal temp sitting in the driveway and then let it cool down completely. After it was cool...I did a re-torque. Drove it for nearly a tank of fuel...with a number of heat cycles during that time...let it cool over night and did another re-torque. Did the same thing all over again...with another re-torque.. Drove it a bunch more miles and did the last re-torque and valve lash before the truck went home. During the whole time...the truck was drove easy.
Truck was home for 5 days and the owner calls me and said that there was coolant and oil running down the back of the motor and that the coolant puke bottle had oil in it.
Somebody explain to me...what happened..

Rick

[zstroken]

Was the block true?

[thedieselbunch]

The only thing that I did was made sure that it was clean...How do you check to make sure that it is true?

Rick

[tony597fitter]

Straightedge in multiple spots with a .002" feeler gauge is what I did.
Check the block both lenght wise and width wise.
Snap-on has a very nice straight edge. You can also find very nice straightedges at a woodworkers store.

[thedieselbunch]

What is the best way to check the O ring to make sure that it was done correctly? How much is the wire suppose to be exposed?

thanks
Rick

[satburn]

Originally Posted by thedieselbunch

Somebody explain to me...what happened..

You blew a head gasket... sorry, that's just mean isn't it?

I would think PDR would be well versed in the proper machining and prepping of an o-ringed head. So I tend to lean towards an installation issue. But, just the same if it were mine I'd be taking special care as I took the head off and inspect the gasket, validate that #6 had the compression leak. Then I'd inspect the gasket for flaws, the wire and finally check the head and block with a straight edge (ask your local machinist for one). A depth gauge to check the o-ring groove would help. If the head was "assumed" square and level when setup to be grooved and depending on the tool used you could have a variation in the groove depth.

What about drive pressures? Is it possible that we have too restrictive of an exhaust housing sending drive pressure through the roof?

Torque wrench in spec? ARP Lube used?

[thedieselbunch]

Well after a lot of looking and cleaning last night I found why the gasket decided to give up the ghost. The machining on the head was done incorrectly! O ring on #6 cylinder has a gap between the ends and there is 3 to 4k difference in the amount that the ring protrudes out of the groove. Took the measurement at 4 different locations(3,6,9,12 o'clock) The 3 and 9 o'clock was 3 to 4k more than the 6 and 12 o'clock. If you were to stand the hean on end with #6 being at the top...the gap in the O ring is at 12 o'clock and that is where the gasket is torn up..The gasket had other spots that were on the verge of failing also...
Not a good thing. I am having 2 other diesel hotrod shops look at it today...just to make sure my findings are correct.

Thanks for your input

Rick

[thedieselbunch]

The results of the 2 shops were what I had found...bad O ring job...Final statement from PDR was ..quote"No warranty and No refund and stop wasting our time".
So I guess this head becomes a very interesting $3400.00 conversational piece...

Rick

[tlse1]

Omg are you serious they aren't going to take care of you.That is sad.The machine shop I used out here will stand behind an o-ring job no questions asked if for some reason they screwed up the o-ring they will by another brand new head and perform the o-ring procedure again free of charge.Then again I have never had a problem to this date with any of there machine work and they have reasonable prices to boot.I am so sorry to hear that happened to you.

[Schoust]

Woww PDR said this? There must be more to this story??

[thedieselbunch]

The story was that the head was done wrong and that since it had sat on a shelf for approx. a year which could cause issues and that it was installed wrong they were not going to do anything about it. Any and all emails sent to them would be ignored and not to waste their time end of story... I have learned something from this though....know how not to treat customers!

Rick

[RedPuller]

Wow, that sucks Rick. I too have a PDR head but had a different issue. Upon initial start-up the freeze plugs that are next to the injectors had started to leak and the only option I was given was to either send the head back for repairs or JB weld them up. Obviously I wasn't about to take the head back off after 3 weeks of downtime, cleaning and prep and the engine was finally back together. So I JB welded them and they turned out to be fine. Kinda looks like crap and I hate to jerry rig a leak like that but it was my only option at the time. PDR not taking the head back for repairs due to their screw-up does not sound like them, weird instance.
As for the gasket leaking, how did you re-torque the head? Line torque or factory sequence? Did you clean the engine block deck with a razor blade and brake cleaner before install? .003" to .004" difference in the level of the o-ring is not that much and I actually had noticed before installation of my o-ring'd head there were gaps in the wire ends as well. I did probably over 10 re-torques in the first 2 months and noticed that the nuts tightened down more each time. Smaller amounts of movement the more torques I did. I was told by Harry, before he left there, that the more re-torques, the better cuz your consistently sucking that o-ring into the fire ring of the gasket. Overall before I started tearing my engine down recently I probably did about 25 re-torques and never had any issues.
No pun intended with my statements, just offering my

Joe