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Old 08-14-2018, 08:50 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by MufflerBearing View Post
Any updates from anyone?

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I am looking for a new truck, Aisin is the what I am leaning toward. Those 68RFEs seem so hit and miss. Randy seems to have beat on his Aisin pretty good before it finally failed from what I gather. I am not looking for high HP or anything, just solid towing reliability.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:54 AM   #82
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I'm continuing to be unimpressed with tuned 68's. These newer Rams are some of the most capable and we'll packaged trucks but the I couldn't be satisfied with the 68 personally.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:46 AM   #83
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I'm continuing to be unimpressed with tuned 68's. These newer Rams are some of the most capable and we'll packaged trucks but the I couldn't be satisfied with the 68 personally.
For what applications?

A good tuned 68 is a nice work/play trans.
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:29 AM   #84
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A buddy of mine has a 2015 Aisin that was just "tuned". The truck runs good but if its pushed hard in the lower gears its activating traction control and cuts the power way back, like less than stock. The tuner told him it was an issue with those trucks, is that always the case?
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:57 PM   #85
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A buddy of mine has a 2015 Aisin that was just "tuned". The truck runs good but if its pushed hard in the lower gears its activating traction control and cuts the power way back, like less than stock. The tuner told him it was an issue with those trucks, is that always the case?
If you were just going to the track, I bet you could splice it so the ECM only reads one wheel speed sensor. Then it'd never see traction breaking.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:54 AM   #86
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I just pulled the trigger on an '18 with the Aisin. So far I enjoy how it drives/shifts, but haven't had it long enough yet to form an informed opinion on it (truck has 77 miles on it and have put ~20 of them on it). Haven't towed/hauled anything yet. It reminds me of my parents 5 Series BMW in sport mode in terms of shift feel/quality (firm and decisive), for whatever that's worth.

Hopefully there is tuning available by the time the warranty is up or the emissions bs gets too annoying.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:31 PM   #87
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My advice to anyone who is wondering which is better would be to go drive them both and you will feel the difference. It also depends on what you will be using the truck for, if you are gonna be towing or hauling heavy the Aisin will probably suit you better than the 68rfe. With that being said I’ve seen them both fail. I’ve got a Aisin to tear apart sometime with in the next few weeks if y’all would like pictures and cause of failure I can do that!
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:38 AM   #88
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I just bought a 14 with the aisin Friday and took an 8 he road trip hauling the gooseneck on Sunday. Honestly I am impressed so far. It sometimes was a gear too high on some 55mph state routes but that's easy enough to shift it down and continue on. It doesn't jerk or bang when loaded. So far so good. Trans feels stronger and more confident that the 68 in my brother's 07.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:26 AM   #89
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In stock form the Aisin is nice. My brothers deleted truck shifts like complete trash. Feels like the transmission is going to fall out of the truck it shifts so hard sometimes, other times feels way too soft.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:40 PM   #90
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In stock form the Aisin is nice. My brothers deleted truck shifts like complete trash. Feels like the transmission is going to fall out of the truck it shifts so hard sometimes, other times feels way too soft.
Deleted and tuned or just deleted? I've driven a 4500 with an AS68RC and it was the closest thing to an Allison I've felt in a Dodge. I drove a few 68RFE trucks and stock truck/stock trans they are meh, add tunes and some drive ok, others worse. I'm going to drive a 2018 68RFE truck in the next week or so for comparison again.

I have considered dropping extra coin on a 2013+ 3500 with an Aisin, but I'm not sure it would be worth it considering the cost to rebuild that I've seen. Makes Allisons look like a budget transmission.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:20 AM   #91
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I love my Aisin for the most part so far. My only complaint would the f'ing ridiculous torque management these trucks have. Aggressive acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear is basically not allowed. If your floor, or anything close to, the truck from a stop/low speed the computer basically goes "Yeah..I don't think so b!tch. Here's a small amount of power to start. Hit 2nd, okay here's a tad more I guess." Then when you hit 3rd gear and the torque converter locks up at ~33 mph iirc it actually lets you use the engine's power and accelerates pretty good from then on up for a ~8,000lb brick. Seriously, when I say the TM is crazy I mean if you were stopped in the road for some reason and a semi came barreling around the corner and you had a split second to react before being obliterated you'd be better off trying to bail out of the truck then mashing the accelerator to actually scoot the truck out of the way. You can kind of drive around the TM to a degree though. You can press the accelerator down fairly quickly as long as it is a linear progression and get pretty decent response that way. It's not ideal though. These trucks hate full throttle... I don't know what the point of this diesel power war is with the Big 3 if they're afraid/know the power the engines have will lunch the rest of the drivetrain before the warranty is up... Oh yeah, marketing... Even if the aggressive TM wasn't there you'd then have to deal with the ESC nannies though.

The 1-2 shift can be harsh at times. As in- you can felt it shift. Nothing guys on here would be bothered by, but people who are use to squishy car/suv transmissions might be bothered by.

The computer likes to lug the engine also. It lives between 1,100-1,500 RPM when cruising unloaded/no tow haul mode engaged. 1,100-1,200 RPM doing 55-60MPH down two lane country roads and ~1,500RPM doing 70-75MPH on the highway. It accelerates with authority with a little more throttle input without needing to downshift in those situations. I don't mind it lugging, but some people might.

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In stock form the Aisin is nice. My brothers deleted truck shifts like complete trash. Feels like the transmission is going to fall out of the truck it shifts so hard sometimes, other times feels way too soft.
Deleted and tuned or just deleted with a smoothed stock file? From what I remember Randy Reyes saying on Instagram you need to keep stock torque management when tuning Aisin trucks since there is no trans tuning available and line pressure drops to near zero during shifts. Stock Aisins tend to flare shift when tuned with much added power irrc.
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:16 AM   #92
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Good info Smoken Gun. I'm on the ledge of buying something like Tobin, but being that my truck is a 1997 with compounds and a G56, I feel like there is inevitable disappointment coming no matter what auto [the wife] I buy. I am looking hard at a 2013 with an Aisin hoping I can avoid 68RFE issues.

ESC Electronic Stability Control?

Slightly off topic, the newer Medium duty trucks I use daily, all have ridiculous TM as well. Even empty they basically don't move in first gear, slightly better in second, little more in 3rd. Almost been T-boned a few times when they derated near curves like you mentioned. 466 Maxxforce, the new L10 from Cummins, all infront of Allisons and the power is limited through all gears, more so at low speeds/gears. Our older 466 that is gone now was old enough not to have TM but made less power. It ran circles around new stuff with more power.
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Old 12-23-2018, 11:12 AM   #93
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Good info Smoken Gun. I'm on the ledge of buying something like Tobin, but being that my truck is a 1997 with compounds and a G56, I feel like there is inevitable disappointment coming no matter what auto [the wife] I buy. I am looking hard at a 2013 with an Aisin hoping I can avoid 68RFE issues.

ESC Electronic Stability Control?

Slightly off topic, the newer Medium duty trucks I use daily, all have ridiculous TM as well. Even empty they basically don't move in first gear, slightly better in second, little more in 3rd. Almost been T-boned a few times when they derated near curves like you mentioned. 466 Maxxforce, the new L10 from Cummins, all infront of Allisons and the power is limited through all gears, more so at low speeds/gears. Our older 466 that is gone now was old enough not to have TM but made less power. It ran circles around new stuff with more power.
If you are looking at 2013ish trucks, make sure it has the AS69RC and not the AS68RC. That is about when they make the switch and i've heard rumors that some '13s might have the 68 in them. The 68 is a POS from what I have read/seen.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:55 PM   #94
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If you are looking at 2013ish trucks, make sure it has the AS69RC and not the AS68RC. That is about when they make the switch and i've heard rumors that some '13s might have the 68 in them. The 68 is a POS from what I have read/seen.
How can I tell what it has? Build sheet or visual inspection? I suspect the pans would be similar.

Sometimes I debate kicking the card table over and buying a blown up F350 to put a Cummins/Allison into.
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:53 AM   #95
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How can I tell what it has? Build sheet or visual inspection? I suspect the pans would be similar.

Sometimes I debate kicking the card table over and buying a blown up F350 to put a Cummins/Allison into.
That's me daily...New truck? Ford with Cummins swap? New 6.7 Ford? Just buy a 1990 Honda Civic EX 5-speed and forget about trucks? Bus pass? Bicycle???

Not sure on how to tell the difference between the 68/69 externally. I have been trying to figure that out myself too since a friend of mine is looking at trucks in the 2013ish build dates.
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:58 AM   #96
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That's me daily...New truck? Ford with Cummins swap? New 6.7 Ford? Just buy a 1990 Honda Civic EX 5-speed and forget about trucks? Bus pass? Bicycle???

Not sure on how to tell the difference between the 68/69 externally. I have been trying to figure that out myself too since a friend of mine is looking at trucks in the 2013ish build dates.
Trans themselves don’t look real similar but the easiest way to tell is which side of the engine the transmission dipstick is on. 68rfe is on the passenger side and 69 is on the driver side.
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Old 12-24-2018, 11:59 AM   #97
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Trans themselves don’t look real similar but the easiest way to tell is which side of the engine the transmission dipstick is on. 68rfe is on the passenger side and 69 is on the driver side.
I thought he was talking about two versions of the Aisin. But I could be wrong.
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Old 12-24-2018, 05:08 PM   #98
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I thought he was talking about two versions of the Aisin. But I could be wrong.
You are right, there are two versions of the AISIN, the AS68RC and the AS69RC. I am not sure how to tell the two apart.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:10 AM   #99
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Good info Smoken Gun. I'm on the ledge of buying something like Tobin, but being that my truck is a 1997 with compounds and a G56, I feel like there is inevitable disappointment coming no matter what auto [the wife] I buy. I am looking hard at a 2013 with an Aisin hoping I can avoid 68RFE issues.

ESC Electronic Stability Control?

Slightly off topic, the newer Medium duty trucks I use daily, all have ridiculous TM as well. Even empty they basically don't move in first gear, slightly better in second, little more in 3rd. Almost been T-boned a few times when they derated near curves like you mentioned. 466 Maxxforce, the new L10 from Cummins, all infront of Allisons and the power is limited through all gears, more so at low speeds/gears. Our older 466 that is gone now was old enough not to have TM but made less power. It ran circles around new stuff with more power.
Thank you. Yes, there are certainly a lot of trade-offs with the new diesels compared to the older ones. Going from a well set-up 12-valve truck to a stock new truck certainly takes some getting use to. I definitely miss the simplicity of a 12-valve, if you don't like what it's doing just whack it with a mallet. No electrical nannies on a 12-valve, just your right foot. LOTS of electrical nannies on new trucks that dictate what is acceptable driver input wise, DEF, regen, more things to potentially go wrong in general. That said, new trucks are SO much nicer to daily drive than the older diesels. Build quality between a 2nd gen and 4th gen is night and day. 2nd gen cabs are built like beer cans. 4th gens actually feel sturdy. My 4th gen starts in 15* F weather after sitting for days outside, without being plugged in, after the grid heater cycles just as easy as it starts in 80* weather, instantly. No 12-valve grumpiness. 4th gen automatically high idles bellow a certain temp (probably freezing), I flip on the exhaust brake, and get heat fairly quick for a diesel. The truck remembers the preferences of the key fob being used as well- automatically turning on the heated seats, heat steering wheel, and changes the seat/mirror positions (if you set the key fob up for that) based on my habits/settings. It actually steers straight when the wheel is pointed straight, which is nice. Still rides like a 1-ton with leaf springs in back though. My impressions is, again, if you go from a nicely built older truck that's set-up just how you want it power/performance wise to a new truck you'll probably be disappointed by how it drives when you're feeling frisky. If you drive a ~8,000lb truck like a normal person (people on here don't apply) you won't have many complaints, if any.

Going from your preferred older truck to a new truck that's deleted and tuned would probably be the least disappointing route, but then you won't have the powertrain warranty as your parachute should the universe decide it wants to bully you in particular for no apparent reason on any given day... Also, no tuning yet for the Aisin if you do want to delete and tune is kind of a bummer. I don't mean to keep bringing up Randy Reyes, but he's the only one I personally know of (besides RevMax) that is working on/modifying Aisins AND is willing to talk about it a little bit. From what I've pieced together from his responses to peoples questions on Instagram/Facebook is that, according to him, the AS69RC is the strongest stock for stock transmission the big three have ever put in a pick-up (a true medium duty commercial transmission) and will hold a sh!t ton of power in stock form (he beat his to death with 700hp+ for almost a year iirc before it gave up the ghost), but they will shift funky as hell while doing it. Flare shifting and other stuff. According to his posts he got rid of the flare shifting with purely mechanical changes though. So if you want to jump through all those hoops on a brand new truck...

He also said, iirc, Aisins have adaptive learning software and will change how/when the transmission shifts after ~weeks/months of learning your driving habits to suit your driving style/requirements.

Yep, ESC is electronic stability control. It also encompasses all-speed traction control. There is also a couple "smart" braking features and hill decent/start control. If you want to spin your tires, do burnouts, drive off-road, drag race, pull, etc. you have those electrically nannies to do battle with. I haven't tested them much myself, but from what I understand you can't disable traction control in 2wd at all. You can disable traction control in 4wd with the ESC button, but it will automatically come back on if you exceed ~35-40 mph. Traction control in 2wd isn't super responsive either- if it's raining or slick out you can step the ass out with all that torque pretty quick and it won't catch it until your getting sideways. From what I understand if you want to permanently disable ESC you have to either tune the truck and ask your tuner to do that (bye bye warranty), pull the ABS fuse (which has adverse affects), or go to your dealer and ask them to and see if they play ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
You are right, there are two versions of the AISIN, the AS68RC and the AS69RC. I am not sure how to tell the two apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
If you are looking at 2013ish trucks, make sure it has the AS69RC and not the AS68RC. That is about when they make the switch and i've heard rumors that some '13s might have the 68 in them. The 68 is a POS from what I have read/seen.
I thought the AS66RC and AS68RC only came in chasis cab trucks? Some actually snuck into regular pickups?

http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/aisin-as68rc.html

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/aisin.html
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Last edited by Smoken Gun; 12-26-2018 at 06:21 AM. Reason: spelling/grammar
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:02 AM   #100
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I thought the AS66RC and AS68RC only came in chasis cab trucks? Some actually snuck into regular pickups?

http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/aisin-as68rc.html

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/aisin.html

Good info Smoken Gun. You can delete a AISIN equipped truck, but no trans tuning like you said. I'm not sure I would say the AISIN is the best out of the 3 though, that Ford 6R140 is a beast.

The AS66RC is behind the gasser engine I believe. It would have a lower rating that the 68/69. Not sure if the 68 made it to the pickup trucks, it was around that time when they were making the switch to the 69 and they pickup truck availability. I would want to know for sure I had a 69, since you never know what car manufacturers do. Remember the '03 trucks that have 47REs and 48REs with some 47 parts and what not? I could see Ram doing the same thing again.
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