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Old 01-15-2019, 08:26 AM   #61
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I haven't looked into it yet, but wouldn't I need to pull it to check and/or replace the thrust plate?
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:34 AM   #62
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Have to pull the front cover, but you can sneak the retainer in there without pulling it I believe. Been a minute since I was in there.

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Old 01-16-2019, 01:56 PM   #63
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:20 AM   #64
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Sneak one in you say? I'll have to pull the cover and look. I just sealed that up and expected to have in the truck this weekend, oh well.

J-pipe: Good find, looks like a marine cam with a bolt on gear... I messaged Snedge on the parts necessary to make it work and of course a thrust plate. I'm not sure of Marine cam gains or benefits. Although I will say the core looks much beefier than a stock 12v cam.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:17 PM   #65
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Was going through some pictures of my progress this morning and saw this:

Click the image to open in full size.

Seems a steel thrust plate is definitely in place. My gut told me I tightened those bolts up and it was steel. Now I am really confused. Maybe old damage that they didn't pull the pan to retrieve the remains?

I'm leaning towards throwing the pan on and letting it eat.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:11 PM   #66
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I found what parts were in the pan. It seemed too thin for a cam plate, but couldn't find anything that resembled the pieces until now. Looks like the older design turbo thrust.

Click the image to open in full size.


The pickup screen and oil filter hopefully caught most of it, so I think it's time to install 60lb springs, seal up the oil pan and throw it in the truck. The oil pan has some small dents and dings, but I don't see that causing any functional issues. Any other tips before it goes in?
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:21 PM   #67
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Back at it again after a busy period at work.

Valve seals: The springs are going to be replaced, I figure valve seals would be a good idea seeing how the rest of the seals/rubber stuff was brittle on the motor. I think I have the old style not the top hat. Tips on replacing them? I know small block chevy seals are easy to destroy if you are careless installing them.

It looks like a HX35/40-12cm is going to get this thing off the ground. Fashionable and sexy... probably not, but room for growth later, yes. On the topic of growth, maybe just for conversation sake, what turbo would be a good one to hang under a hybrid? I see a lot of people using HX52 and HX55 holsets for small quick setups. I have a friend with a few of these laying around. I have also read good things about small S400 and big S300 turbos. Then there is the K31, which seems like a decent cost effective option with good size wheels and even an internal waste gate. I found that interesting because it seems like you could tune it more easily and not have to worry about external gates with springs and such. Also it seems like you could limit or raise the power level. Anyways, just thinking out loud.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:02 AM   #68
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Got some new parts in, going to finally start making hay on this project. 60lb springs and valve seals are in.

S360 and next to an unrelated HT3B/23cm. I'd really like HX35/K31 compounds, but it would take some time to fab a few of the parts and I'd like to get this off the ground. So, the Excursion might be up and running on this single at first. If so the S360 would need a smaller exhaust housing, either .70 or .80 wastagated, not sure which would be ideal. I think this is a 60/68/1.00 turbo as it sits, I have yet to measure it.

Click the image to open in full size.

Flex-a-lite fan 272. Wasn't sure if I wanted to spend $550+ on one of these, but I found this as an open box unit online for a discounted price. So, I'm going to try it out. I'm hoping for good MPG results, faster warm up in the winter, and better access to the engine being further forward.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by Bersaglieri; 04-29-2019 at 09:08 AM.
 
Old 05-04-2019, 09:20 AM   #69
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Having ran an he341/hx55 setup, I wouldn't recommend the 55 for an atmo charger. It felt really bottled up. Running a 341/GTA4202 now and its so much better. Spools stupid fast and runs really clean with 5x14s. Just cruising you can barely feather the throttle and its making 25psi+ instantly. Only problem with the gta4202 is the wastegated exhaust housing. The down pipe was an absolute pain in the ass to run 5" all the way back.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:54 PM   #70
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Thanks for the insight. The more I read about the HX52/HX55 setups the more I realized there we probably too small for what I'm doing and your info confirms that.

Is the GTA4202 similar to the K31? I almost looks like the same turbo in your picture with the Detroit Diesel cast into the cover. Now that I think of it, my buddy may have a GTA4202 with a bad wheel in his shop. Was the wastegate housing an issue for clearance or something else?

Your compounds sound fun and I was planning on similar sized injectors. Do you tow at all? What is the rest of your setup? Gears, tires, fuel, weight, trans, etc?

I was set on getting the ball rolling with a S360, but I really have an itch to build a HX35-12cm and K31 compound setup. Sounds like it'd be a blast like your truck is.

Here are the K31 specs from the CompD turbo sticky:
K31
Turbine Wheel
74/83
Comp Wheel
71/100-------95lbs/min
Housings
T3 .76
T4 .85, 1.0, 1.10

PS For those interested I posted the S360 measurements in the S360 thread in the turbo section.
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Last edited by Bersaglieri; 05-07-2019 at 11:56 PM.
 
Old 05-08-2019, 10:37 PM   #71
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From my research, the k31 and gt4294 share a similar compressor wheel (71mm/70.5mm) and both came in 12.7 detroit applications. The GTA4202 is a 74.5 comp wheel and was on the 14L Detroits. Both share the same 83mm turbine wheel and a 1.15 or 1.25? gated housing. Mine has the 1.15. Im not sure if the 4294 comes with a boreless comp wheel like the 4202 does, apparently thats what the "A" in GTA specifies. Mine is a reman unit off ebay that I got for a good deal.

I rarely tow but will be pulling a small excavator, then 5th wheel camper trailer in the very near future for upcoming house updates so ill get some solid info on that. Will probably end up throwing the stock fuel pin in just to not have to worry about egt's at all.

But right now im running 5x14s, LP piston pump, stock fuel lines, 3800 gov spring, timing bumped 1 tooth @ stock marks, hot screw all the way in and either a BD or M&H #5 fuel pin running through a very tired getrag with a valair kevlar ceramic single disk, truck weighs about 6400 with me in it, its an ex cab . Still tuning here and there with spring gate and the afc, but it makes 57ish psi with 19 out of the primary and cleans up all the fuel. The only downside is running 75mph with 3.55 gears and 35" tires its making about 10psi crusing, but you barely tap on the throttle to pass and its almost instantly at 30psi. Im pretty happy with it. Im sure the 341 will be very overfueled once I swap the PPump in. The gated housing can fit decent in an over under set up as far as frame clearance. I built a pedestal mount that attaches to the engine mount and oil drain. The problem is the length. It pushes the downpipe very close to the firewall, so much so that i had to beat the firewall back, make a 5" pie cut elbow then beat the hell out of that with the straight attached to make it between the bellhousing and frame. It might be more do able to neck it down to 4 inch right off the turbo but I wanted full 5". By far the worst part of the whole ordeal. Ill go grab some pics of it now.
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:14 PM   #72
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Dont mind all the oil. On its 3rd main seal and still leaks.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:51 AM   #73
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Good info on the Garretts, I'm not too familiar with them.

I'd say for towing you've got a pretty tight setup, I don't tow much with this vehicle, but it does weigh over 8000lbs in it's daily driven format.

The info in your fueling, weight, gears, etc is extremely helpful! The cruising boost is very important to me. From my calculations you are cruising at a couple 100rpm higher than I would at highway speeds. Without taking into account every variable it tells me that I'll have just under 10psi cruising if I had a similar fuel/air combo. I feel like a HX35 with a ported 12cm or 14cm would help that as well. That is where I want to be to keep the MPG's reasonable.

Great pictures, that explains a lot. That is one concern with going compounds, especially on a Ford like mine, the lack of room. Unlike the Dodges from 89-2002, the Fords are limited on space everywhere. Thanks a lot for your info and pics!
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:03 AM   #74
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No problem man, glad it was useful.

I feel a looser secondary housing would help a lot to lower crusing boost. Im looking into other avenues to replacethe 341, only downside is having to re fab the hot pipe. The 9cm Spools fast but definitely is choked up on top and it seems to eat fuel pretty good. Im sure this will only get worse once i get the Ppump on.

I would highly recommend necking down to 4" right off the primary. Wasn't worth the headache to run the 5" and sounds like you'll be even tighter on space.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:22 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundaybacon View Post
No problem man, glad it was useful.

I feel a looser secondary housing would help a lot to lower crusing boost. Im looking into other avenues to replacethe 341, only downside is having to re fab the hot pipe. The 9cm Spools fast but definitely is choked up on top and it seems to eat fuel pretty good. Im sure this will only get worse once i get the Ppump on.

I would highly recommend necking down to 4" right off the primary. Wasn't worth the headache to run the 5" and sounds like you'll be even tighter on space.
More good info, thanks man! We sorta test fit a Garrett version of the K31 under a HX35 and boy you're right there isn't much room with the wastegate stuff and larger housing. My buddy and I talked about running a SXE369 or something similar with a 4" outlet. I know PDD uses this with a K27 in their towing compounds and seems successful. Using the smaller frame turbo means the body, housings, plumbing and exhaust would all fit easier, especially in this tight superduty package.
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Last edited by Bersaglieri; 05-25-2019 at 10:24 PM.
 
Old 05-25-2019, 11:23 PM   #76
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And then I took 2 steps forward and 3 steps back...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bersaglieri View Post
I agree, I wish I had an extra gear like a 6 speed Allision has. The numbers I posted assumed I would run 75-78mph in a 70mph zone. The calculated RPM's are in the following post. They are not too horrible. I hope to keep the boost at those RPM's at a reasonable level to help MPG.



I wish I had a 6th gear, say .61, like an Allison. I hope my next build has that option. Current RPM's with a 4R100 4th gear of .71, 3.73 gears, 33" tires.

65mph - 1753rpm
70mph - 1888rpm
75mph - 2022rpm
After a month of driving a truck with an Aisin behind a 6.7L Cummins I decided that if I am doing this, I am going to have that .61 over drive. Chugging along under 2000rpm everywhere is one thing I love about these motors. Plus, a local guy was very interested in my 4R100 stuff, and within a few days it was all sold and a 6 speed Allison was on the shop floor.

Allison 6th gear [.61], 3.73 gears, and 33" tires:

65mph = 1506rpm
70mph = 1622rpm
75mph = 1738rpm
80mph = 1853rpm



Click the image to open in full size.

I plan to use GOS / Destroked hard parts and Jason @ transmissiontuner.com for the custom wiring harness, TCM, and base tuning. His tuning is accessed and modified via EFIlive which a friend of mine has and is familiar with.

I am still fuzzy on some details since not many people talk about Allison swaps online. The stuff I rarely see mentioned is the output housing of the Allison needing modified for a speed sensor that reads an aftermarket tone ring on the transmission output shaft. Also an adapter and shaft needs purchased to mate the NP273 to the Allison. Depending on where I have to position the motor the stock shaft lengths may work.

I have heard you can install a late model shifter stalk and use the manual shift and tow haul buttons which is pretty cool in my opinion. I am not sure if cruise will work, but I usually don't use it anyways. The transmission cross member and shift linkage will undoubtedly need modified.

I spoke with Phil @ DPC again about a converter. I'll tell ya, that's one guy/shop I don't mind talking on the phone with. He has 2 triple disk options for the Allison. One is the $995 version with a stock style stator which, inherently, has limited stall speeds and a 2 year warranty. Then there is the $1495 version with a billet stator and internals, several stall options, and a lifetime warranty. He said the billet one was better for boosted launches and more customized stall/coupling. I'm trying to tell myself the $995 converter is all I need and that I have no reason to be doing boosted launches in an Excursion...that I'm an adult now and I don't do those sort of things. However, a mentally stable adult probably wouldn't put a 12v and Allison in an Excursion, so there's that...
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Last edited by Bersaglieri; 05-25-2019 at 11:25 PM.
 
Old 06-07-2019, 01:04 AM   #77
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On the topic of compounds I was thinking a few things over. First, it's amazing that a sxe369 moves 95lbs of air which is far more than a HT3B is rumored to move, and also the same as a S471 and a K31. So I am sitting here thinking, why fight the 5" downpipe, bigger frame and better piping for a S400 frame when the s300 based frame is capable of moving the same amount of air and likely will spool quicker. Sort of like a newer HX55 with more flow. Maybe I can get PDD to sell me their hotpipe and find a sxe369 to plumb, I doubt their kit would fit in a Superduty. BD is the only other place I can seem to find a T4 hotpipe for those interested.

That brings me to the second point. The 10psi cruising boost hurts MPG. Well from I calculated your cruising RPM with the info you gave me is 1963rpm. I hope to be cruising 225rpm lower at that speed. Which should [depending on a few other variables like drag, weight, etc] keep me under 10psi. I read somewhere years ago that keeping the boost under 10psi on the highway was key to getting good MPG's. I think it may have been an article in DieselPower about Garmon runnning a high powered 12v and getting 55mpg. Anyways, in a Ford container the size of the compound setup matters and with a VE pump the spool and RPM range matters. Honestly no big reason in my eyes to worry about moving air beyond 3000-3200rpm in this situation. Just throwing some thoughts out there.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:48 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundaybacon View Post
Having ran an he341/hx55 setup, I wouldn't recommend the 55 for an atmo charger. It felt really bottled up. Running a 341/GTA4202 now and its so much better. Spools stupid fast and runs really clean with 5x14s. Just cruising you can barely feather the throttle and its making 25psi+ instantly. Only problem with the gta4202 is the wastegated exhaust housing. The down pipe was an absolute pain in the ass to run 5" all the way back.


Sundaybacon, what were the specs on your hx55. And are you VE pumped? Following the discussion and actually planning to run an hx55 for atmosphere, but trying to decide on he341 vs hx35 for secondary. Thanks.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 02:54 PM   #79
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Remember when I posted that I didn't see any cam wear?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

That is the last lobe on #6. I found a 1/3 of the same on the nose of one more lobe. Part of me says "Yup, that's my reason to yank the cam and stab a Hamilton in." The other says "It'll probably run another 200,000 miles and by that time it'll need more than a cam replaced anyways."

What do you think? The motor is on the shop floor waiting to go in, it just needs the oil pan put on.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:49 PM   #80
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Off topic but how are you making out on the Allison swap?
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