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01-12-2018, 06:57 PM
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#1
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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P-Pump 24v Idle Surge
I've seen a little about this on here, but no real clear answers on how to solve this. I am working on a 99 24v with a p-pump swap. The components I am aware of (I only did part of the build) are as follows:
-180 pump with 7mm dv, 4k springs, hamilton v2 pump cam and springs
-DDP custom injectors (I don't recall exact flow specs, but around 52-56 lph I believe)
-Industrial Race twins (older with 66 Silver and 87 mm S4T)
-Built trans with Stock stall, maybe 2200 rpm?
-FASS 260 with TorkTek orifice overflow
The problem is it surges a little in neutral, but when dropped in gear it surges really badly. I've built similar pumps for 12 valves that did not have this issue. I've heard it may be injector related, but not exactly which way a person would go to help alleviate the issue. I have tried different idle springs and idle rpm settings to no avail. I also swapped from 191 to 7mm dv, which did not help the surge.
So has anyone been able to solve this issue? And be willing to share what they determined? I know some surging is normal with tight governor springs and built trans, but this is extreme.
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-12-2018, 10:06 PM
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#2
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Name: RonA
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Liberal ground zero.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,058
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Did you try backing off the gov springs 1 click to see if it helped?
__________________
55 years of work and all I got was a T-shirt.
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01-13-2018, 11:59 AM
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#3
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Ya, I even tried different idle springs. No help.
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-13-2018, 04:48 PM
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#4
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Name: DDually
Title: Still spooling..
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 2,095
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Is it like a lope?
__________________
1995 Cummins with almost no matching paint, 2 dents
2001 VW TDI South bend, tune, nozzys, custom stuff that's rusting, one custom thing that's not rusting
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01-13-2018, 10:50 PM
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#5
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Ya you could call it a lope
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-13-2018, 11:32 PM
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#6
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Name: DDually
Title: Still spooling..
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,095
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Which size did you choose for your injection lines?
__________________
1995 Cummins with almost no matching paint, 2 dents
2001 VW TDI South bend, tune, nozzys, custom stuff that's rusting, one custom thing that's not rusting
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01-14-2018, 05:32 AM
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#7
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,412
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What is it timed At? I'd try playing with the timing a little. The One and only p24v I've been around needed alot of timing to run right.
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01-14-2018, 07:21 PM
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#8
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDually
Which size did you choose for your injection lines?
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I think they are the 084 lines. That’s what crazy Carl’s recommended at the time.
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-14-2018, 07:23 PM
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#9
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
What is it timed At? I'd try playing with the timing a little. The One and only p24v I've been around needed alot of timing to run right.
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22 degrees per the recommendation of Lenny at dynomite, who did the injectors
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-15-2018, 09:00 AM
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#10
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
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I have not seen a v2 cam idle smooth yet. Imo it needs more timing but I do not see that helping your current situation. May want to verify pop pressure.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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01-15-2018, 08:04 PM
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#11
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Name: RonA
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Liberal ground zero.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,058
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When I was playing with the p-pumped 24, I discovered how injector sensitive they were. Once I figured that out I found a place to get them made and stopped fighting it.
__________________
55 years of work and all I got was a T-shirt.
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01-15-2018, 11:06 PM
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#12
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonA
When I was playing with the p-pumped 24, I discovered how injector sensitive they were. Once I figured that out I found a place to get them made and stopped fighting it.
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So where did you end up getting injectors?
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-15-2018, 11:09 PM
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#13
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
I have not seen a v2 cam idle smooth yet. Imo it needs more timing but I do not see that helping your current situation. May want to verify pop pressure.
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I tried to keep timing conservative on this build because the customer thinks he wants to tow with it and was also having issues spooling the turbos
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-16-2018, 07:47 AM
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#14
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotadzl
I tried to keep timing conservative on this build because the customer thinks he wants to tow with it and was also having issues spooling the turbos
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I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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01-16-2018, 11:29 AM
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#15
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Name: RonA
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Liberal ground zero.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
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66 spools poorly, even with lots of fuel. Are you running 12V injector springs and pop off pressures on your injectors?
__________________
55 years of work and all I got was a T-shirt.
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01-17-2018, 07:23 AM
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#16
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonA
66 spools poorly, even with lots of fuel. Are you running 12V injector springs and pop off pressures on your injectors?
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Not with a 68mm turbine. They are whatever Weston build for the application. They seemed to make good power even with a 12mm pump. Good enough to hurt the engine.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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01-17-2018, 12:22 PM
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#17
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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I believe they are 12 valve springs in the injectors.. They were built for a p pump application
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
Last edited by Yotadzl; 01-17-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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01-17-2018, 12:23 PM
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#18
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Name: Yotadzl
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oregon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
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I don’t disagree, but sometimes you can’t talk sense into people
__________________
'85 Yota Crawler-2l diesel, custom built VE (by me), custom T25 turbo. Slow but fun!
'95 Cummins grampa truck, embarrassingly stock
'12 Cummins, deleted
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01-17-2018, 03:51 PM
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#19
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Name: RonA
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Liberal ground zero.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotadzl
I believe they are 12 valve springs in the injectors.. They were built for a p pump application
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Too bad you don't have access to a set of M6's or M7's. Set to pop at 290 it would be interesting to see if it helped the idle. I don't know if Exergy is still around to balance injectors. It's been a while.
__________________
55 years of work and all I got was a T-shirt.
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01-17-2018, 08:55 PM
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#20
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Name: dieselbeef
Title: dick doggin
Status:
Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: myakka city florida
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 9,867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
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yea good luck with that
__________________
02 quad cab 4x4 aluminum flatbed 63/68/14 hrvp INJ by weston 4.10 gorend/suncoast method race
01 2500 4x4 quad cab all stock/drag comp
07.5 3500 4x4 dually 4 dr 6.7 d&j extreme, fleece cheetah, gorend triple, cat filters,
rip wrongway...
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