Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Tech > 94-98 2nd Gen. 12V
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-11-2017, 03:40 PM   #1
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
Daily driving larger single - advice needed

So I have been adjusting my driving habits after switching from a 64/74/14 to a 71/76/.9 t4.

I have been fighting some bad surge . If I fuel the turbo too much it barks at every shift and can even start bucking when I hit lock up.

One of my buddies sent me a custom stiffer afc spring - it helped.

I put a stock fuel plate in - full forward.it helped but it is slower .

My other buddy cut the mwe groove larger from .140" to .245" It helped with around town driving but it will still buck when I hit od/lock up at wide open throttle. That shift happens around 3000 rpm

I have the afc pretty tight. The turbo is lit at 2500 and starts building boost around 1900 -2100 depending on what gear I'm in. With the afc looser it will
Start spooling well at 1900 rpm but it barks and surges badly so I cut fuel back.

I found that manual at higher Rpm's helps big time.

What am I missing ? 5k springs and higher shift points ? Too much air for the cylinder head?

I'm hitting 50 psi max boost right now. Drive pressure seems to be in the 60s - it flutters a little.

Timing is 19*
Stock stall triple disk
5x16s
7mm dv
3.54 gears and stock tires
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-11-2017, 07:46 PM   #2
Cflanery88
 
Cflanery88's Avatar

Name: Cflanery88
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Shelby, MI 49455
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 536
Just get a turbosmart blowoff valve and it won’t surge at every shift.
__________________
06 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4L, Wagler +.080 rods, Hobbit tuned, Exergy150% injectors,Polished s475/87 1:0 A/R Engineered Turbo Billet Wheel,arp625s,14mm main studs,PPE dual fuelers,Hamilton 188/220,extreme pushrods,Fleece bypass/drains/distribution block,110#springs.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 09:23 PM   #3
DDually
 
DDually's Avatar

Name: DDually
Title: Still spooling..
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,095
Also more fuel will help the barking between shifts.
__________________
1995 Cummins with almost no matching paint, 2 dents

2001 VW TDI South bend, tune, nozzys, custom stuff that's rusting, one custom thing that's not rusting
 
Old 11-12-2017, 06:56 AM   #4
jasonc

Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cflanery88 View Post
Just get a turbosmart blowoff valve and it won’t surge at every shift.
A blow off valve should only be used when the throttle is let off quick, not unloading and releasing pressure during shifts, you'll over speed the charger. It just sounds like the comp wheel is to close in size to the turbine to run well as a single. You could go to a larger exhaust housing.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 06:57 AM   #5
jasonc

Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,395
What charger are you running that's a 71/76?
 
Old 11-12-2017, 11:36 AM   #6
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
K31 with a machined s400 exhaust housing. The way I have it set up now it doesn't bark at every shift- just at lock up/ overdrive. I my tps went out a couple years ago and I replaced it with a pot switch- maybe that's part of the problem. It's the worst when overdrive and lock up happen at exactly the same time. The rpm drop can be 350 rpm and a lot more load. I can draw out the shifts to 3500 or so and the truck does feel faster than the silver 64 I had . The one shift I can't draw out is the 3-4 shift. I'm going to wire up a switch to help keep it out of overdrive and lockup longer. The factory od switch won't let me turn on od when The truck is over 3000 rpm or a certain mph it seems.

I have been thinking about a 1.0 or 1.1 housing.

I'm not giving up on this turbo yet . I'd like to make the power with this thing to get into the 11s. Driving around town and commuting with with the lag doesn't bother me if the power is there when I want to play.

My egts max out at 1300 and 50 psi , cruising is 500-600 and 3-4 psi, once it hits 15 psi it takes off

I'll have more time to play with the afc when I get done with work next week.
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-12-2017, 11:43 AM   #7
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDually View Post
Also more fuel will help the barking between shifts.


That would be great if it does. I'll be pulling the plate next week when I'm
done commuting with the truck. Just in case I break something. With a zero plate set it the middle and a looser afc spring this turbo would start spooling around 1900 and be lit by 2100 and would hit 60 psi. I didn't have my dp gauge hooked up then.
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:03 PM   #8
jasonc

Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,395
I remember the thread where he machined that, I think the exhaust housing is alot of your problem. Does ats sell the housing they use seperate?
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:22 PM   #9
turbo2387
 
turbo2387's Avatar

Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 665
Yes. Its $425. The t3 version is a .85 twin scroll
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:45 PM   #10
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
If I tried another housing I'd probably pick up another s400 housing for 200$ and have my machinist buddy modify it.

Turbo2387 sent me the afc spring and a pic of the switch wiring.he has also been helping me a bunch with understanding the afc better. I'm going to give that od lock out switch a shot before I try a bigger housing. It almost feels like I'm snuffing the turbo out when it hits lockup/overdrive at the same time. Maybe I'm not fueling it hard enough up top and or the Rpm's are to low to make the shift along with the rpm drop from od and lock up happening at the same time. If I gently hold the brake pedal before it makes the shift into overdrive/lock up and I let off the pedal after the shift , then lock up comes on later and it does not surge
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-13-2017, 08:15 AM   #11
gman99
 
gman99's Avatar

Name: gman99
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 224
Are you saying that you are shifting from 3rd unlocked to overdrive/locked at the same time?
My truck is smooth but I think even my truck would buck under those circumstances.
__________________
98 QCLB 4x4 12V, ARP625+ Studs, 14mm mains NonIC pistons, Ported head, Marine Cam, Hamilton Pushrods and Tappets, BeeHive springs HE351cw over Billet S475, 4KGSK, 5X.018's, 7mm DV's, 24 Degrees Timing, 5" Exhaust, TCS Input, DPC Converter, Firepunk Competition Rebuild Kit
 
Old 11-13-2017, 09:20 AM   #12
turbo2387
 
turbo2387's Avatar

Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 665
I'm gonna elaborate for you a bit while you sleep Mike.

yes. because his TPS is out he has a POT switch installed. after talking with him this weekend we figured out that he is actually skipping a gear. that gear is 3rd lock-up. he is shifting 1,2,3,OD. this is most likely causing his main problem. when he goes race truck mode this 600rpm or so drop is causing the turbo to loose all its drive pressure. Where his smaller turbo use to be able to recover with just a cough this bigger single snuffs.

He will be installing a manual OD switch that allows the truck to shift 1,2,3,3LU then manually shift into OD at whatever RPM he chooses. Me thinks this will solve his problems.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 23CD3075-980C-4E72-A19D-D47703F70906.jpg (255.7 KB, 0 views)

Last edited by turbo2387; 11-13-2017 at 09:21 AM.
 
Old 11-13-2017, 09:45 AM   #13
pushlar84
 
pushlar84's Avatar

Name: pushlar84
Title: pushlar84
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: new york
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 658
What about the BD diverter valve
__________________
2001 Ram- fuel by Northeast Diesel, 2.6 ED, Allison 1000. Haisley cam, engine & trans built in house
 
Old 11-13-2017, 10:41 AM   #14
zstroken
 
zstroken's Avatar

Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 23,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2387 View Post
I'm gonna elaborate for you a bit while you sleep Mike.

yes. because his TPS is out he has a POT switch installed. after talking with him this weekend we figured out that he is actually skipping a gear. that gear is 3rd lock-up. he is shifting 1,2,3,OD. this is most likely causing his main problem. when he goes race truck mode this 600rpm or so drop is causing the turbo to loose all its drive pressure. Where his smaller turbo use to be able to recover with just a cough this bigger single snuffs.

He will be installing a manual OD switch that allows the truck to shift 1,2,3,3LU then manually shift into OD at whatever RPM he chooses. Me thinks this will solve his problems.

Do you live in Anderson Indiana, as I have been to MOFAB several times!


I agree, as the large RPM drop doesn't allow the CFM produced by the compressor to go anywhere, as well as robbing HP from the exhaust, so you end up with a surge condition
__________________
2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)

Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
 
Old 11-13-2017, 11:10 AM   #15
turbo2387
 
turbo2387's Avatar

Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken View Post
Do you live in Anderson Indiana, as I have been to MOFAB several times!


I agree, as the large RPM drop doesn't allow the CFM produced by the compressor to go anywhere, as well as robbing HP from the exhaust, so you end up with a surge condition


Yep
 
Old 11-13-2017, 10:21 PM   #16
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
Here is a vid. I counted the shifts and I'm pretty sure it went 1-2 2-3 3-od, then lockup. Either way there was 3 shifts and lockup. I stay in it for awhile to give a good example. It's a dog if I let it shift by itself.


K31 surging 12 valve - YouTube
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-13-2017, 10:39 PM   #17
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
Here is a vid showing the difference manually shifting. It coughs right at lockup up or over drive which ever one happens last. Shortly after I make the 2-3 shift you can see the tach drop a little again and then the final big drop of the tach happens at the end, it coughs and I lift and it continues to make some noise.

Manually shifting 12 valve 1-2-3 and overdrive / lockup occurs to early I think- k31 surging/buckin - YouTube
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-13-2017, 10:52 PM   #18
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
Here's a vid with 2 runs both I've overdrive turned off with the factory switch. I let it shift by itself and it barks at the 2-3 shift . Lockup seems to happen at the same time. I do not lift on the first run in this vid. The 2nd run I manually shift it and it does not bark at all however I did let off the pedal and it barks.

I hit 49-50 psi and 1400* egts.

This setup is much faster if I loosen up the afc and swap plates but it surges even worse.

K31 12 valve overdrive turned off, auto shifting and manual shifting - YouTube
__________________
stock 94
 
Old 11-14-2017, 05:33 AM   #19
jasonc

Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,395
I only watched the last vid but it sounded like it was even surging over 3k rpm? I had a 362/65/12cm yrs ago that acted just like that. I used the same charger as a secondary in compounds and it worked decent. Man about all you can do is go to a bigger ex housing if in deed it kept surging in the upper rpm's, which I'm sure you know is gonna make it more lazy to spool.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 09:30 AM   #20
SCHMITTY
 
SCHMITTY's Avatar

Name: SCHMITTY
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: K beach, AK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,177
The 1st and 2nd videos I posted are short. They show the surging at its worst.

I'm happy with the last run in the last video I posted .


Say I did get a 1.0 or 1.1 exhaust housing. If I threw enough fuel at it to get it to spool would it still surge ?


I'm not totally against a ratchet shifter with a switch for od and a switch for lock up.

I'm going to wire up that switch that was posted to keep it out of overdrive longer and also play with the fueling some more. I'll buy a larger exhaust housing last.
__________________
stock 94
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 AM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2024, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com