Water injection + Ice = Good idea? Bad Idea?

Turner5.9 said:
I think it would be a bad idea because water pits the top of your clinder wall and if its was ice cold it looks like it would be worse if you don't have to because water/meth is just untime fuel
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First of all.... it's going to be steam, so in terms of what the cylinder will see, the temperature of the injected water is irrelevant.

Secondly, I think you're the first instance of the word "meth" in the entire thread.

I assume the guy is running straight water, or hopefully water with some water-soluble oil in it. No methanol.
 
Charles said:
First of all.... it's going to be steam, so in terms of what the cylinder will see, the temperature of the injected water is irrelevant.

Secondly, I think you're the first instance of the word "meth" in the entire thread.

I assume the guy is running straight water, or hopefully water with some water-soluble oil in it. No methanol.
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I understand your soluble oil idea. But for now, when water will only be injected at higher-boost and throttle when there's lots of heat present,so no.

I'm using my washer fluid tank for the water source to start. Water + oil + windshield = bad idea.
 
JasonCzerak said:
I understand your soluble oil idea. But for now, when water will only be injected at higher-boost and throttle when there's lots of heat present,so no.

I'm using my washer fluid tank for the water source to start. Water + oil + windshield = bad idea.
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That was the only time mine was injected. Never came on unless boost went above 35lbs, and the second stage never came on until ~55lbs.

Still started getting excessive blowby and actual water droplets on my CCV tube. Went to the water-soluble oil and blowby went back to normal and nothing but engine oil on my CCV tube.

For the windshield tank, I'm with you. If you get a separate tank, run this stuff.

2813501350082519711S600x600Q85.jpg



A little goes a long, long way.
 
Charles said:
First of all.... it's going to be steam, so in terms of what the cylinder will see, the temperature of the injected water is irrelevant.

Secondly, I think you're the first instance of the word "meth" in the entire thread.

I assume the guy is running straight water, or hopefully water with some water-soluble oil in it. No methanol.
Click to expand...

just water will pits the top of your clinder wall
 
Turner5.9 said:
just water will pits the top of your clinder wall
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Pure water in vapor form (steamed) will rust the top of the cylinder above the top ring.

But how does the temperature of the water you inject effect this?

I can't see that it would, considering the water reaching the cylinders will be vaporized, and the temperature it started out should mean nothing.
 
We use cold water in our tractors for the water injection.... Harder to tell with the tractors but it seems to make a little bit of a difference on them.
 
JasonCzerak said:
Your experiment that hot water freezes faster is flawed... Did you take into account the fact that 1/2 the hot water evaporated before what's left froze, there for having a smaller amount of water to freeze then the cold water?

I bet you were shocked to see the once "hot water" thaw quicker then the never warmed up water. :)

So, who's up for running a plane on a treadmill?
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how do you know my experiment is flawed? you werent here for it. we stuck the same amount of hot water and room temp water into the freezer at the same time and the hot froze faster.

plane on a treadmill has already been done. haha

Garrett
 
SSpeeDEMONSS said:
how do you know my experiment is flawed? you werent here for it. we stuck the same amount of hot water and room temp water into the freezer at the same time and the hot froze faster.

plane on a treadmill has already been done. haha

Garrett
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I can know it was flawed with out being there.

Did you measure the amount of water after it was thawed? Was it exactly the same? I'm sure it wasn't. If you get less water after it was thawed then the experiment is null and void.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/PhysFAQ/General/hot_water.html
Its True: Hot Water Really Can Freeze Faster Than Cold Water | Wired Science | Wired.com

your wrong, so am I depending on the "specific" circumstances.
 
Its called the Mpemba Effect, no matter what the hot water does freeze faster than cold, evaporation may not be the only reason the water can freeze more quickly. There may be less dissolved gas in the warmer water, which can reduce its ability to conduct heat, allowing it to cool faster. However, Polish physicists in the 1980s were unable to conclusively demonstrate this relationship.
Does Hot Water Freeze Faster Than Cold Water?


A non-uniform temperature distribution in the water may also explain the Mpemba effect. Hot water rises to the top of a container before it escapes, displacing the cold water beneath it and creating a "hot top." This movement of hot water up and cold water down is called a convection current. These currents are a popular form of heat transfer in liquids and gases, occurring in the ocean and also in radiators that warm a chilly room. With the cooler water at the bottom, this uneven temperature distribution creates convection currents that accelerate the cooling process. Even with more ground to cover to freeze, the temperature of the hotter water can drop at a faster rate than the cooler water.
 
Am I mistaken that if you experience Cavitation Errosion from water injection, that
1) you are injecting too much water, or
2) you don't have enough heat available to vaporize the water before it hits the cylinder wall?

Either of which indicates operator error.
 
I've more or less stopped trying to come up with an accurate and holistic understanding of water injection theory. I've never seen anybody detail every aspect of it in an internally coherent way. I've even read post-grad theses on it. Post-grad theses... And they all totally whiff on several aspects of it.

What I've learned over the past three years researching and playing with water:

1. Ultimately it works because finely atomized water has amazing heat transfer properties.

2. A better spray is better and more stops being better around the point where it starts resulting in more black smoke out the tailpipe than you had without it.

3. Our engines are incredibly forgiving.

4. Thermodynamics is not taught nearly well enough in schools.

5. Assume everybody's wrong.

Thermo/ Mechanical Engineering question - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

Superheating water injection - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
 
The more I watch you the more I like what you have to say Begle.

We didn't have a physics teacher when I graduated highschool. Only someone paid to fill the role.
 
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