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Old 01-06-2018, 09:42 PM   #21
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I plan to machine the ends of the plate so the punch/die clamp system can be mounted to insure its all square. If i get further along and more concerned about it i can get a fully adjustable clamp system to square it up perfectly across the bed length. It will have two stations with two sets of punch/dies and back gauges that are adjustable for future use.

The first station will be two 2" wide punch/dies that are roughly 6 inches apart 90 deg bend. Next station will be two 5" punch/dies 3" apart 45 deg bend. Then the part is finished.

Guides is a good topic as im currently working on ideas for this. It seems these are done a few different ways. One i see used is linear guides and another is just two machined surfaces that are against each other that are greased. Here is another i could use on my frame design. Could use a greased brass slide or uhmw plastic.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:54 PM   #22
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I'll have to take a look at the guides on our machines. brass or uhmw doesn't sound very rigid.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 10:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kleann View Post
I'll have to take a look at the guides on our machines. brass or uhmw doesn't sound very rigid.
The hydro/mechanical press brakes use bronze(not brass like i said above) bushings on the pins that carry the load. You just have to use the correct grade. The guides shouldn't have a lot of force on them. I am guessing your machines have liner guides. Now the size of those guides i am not 100% sure of yet. Been searching around to find sizes used on different machines.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:01 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by blackmega3500 View Post
He has the second largest commercial glass company in the city of Houston so cost really isn't the variable for him. .

Then he should spend the $$$$ and get a water jet and he can cut any product he would ever want too
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:32 AM   #25
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Little to add, but as a customer, I found the water jet process to be extremely cost prohibitive. The parts I wanted made had a near equivalent available for $30, the jetting alone was going to cost $260.



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Old 01-07-2018, 10:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoferret View Post
Then he should spend the $$$$ and get a water jet and he can cut any product he would ever want too
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
Little to add, but as a customer, I found the water jet process to be extremely cost prohibitive. The parts I wanted made had a near equivalent available for $30, the jetting alone was going to cost $260.



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Difficult to justify from a production and cost sense when.......

"Laser: 15,000 in / 70 ipm = 214.29 minutes of active cutting. 214.29 min = 3.57 hours. $13/hr * 3.57 hr = $46.41 for 15,000 inches of cutting.

Waterjet: 15,000 in / 15 ipm = 1,000 minutes of active cutting. 1,000 min = 16.67 hours. $15/hr * 16.67 hr = $250.05 for 15,000 inches of cutting.

Without considering any other factors, waterjet cutting is more than five times the cost of laser cutting per inch per hour."

Overall good comparison here: The Cost of Waterjet Vs. Laser Cutting Services | Sheet Metal Fabrication
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Last edited by blackmega3500; 01-07-2018 at 10:08 AM.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 10:24 AM   #27
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While we don't have a waterjet at work we use that same parts on some equipment. We have pressure vessel that use 8 intesifiers, 2 pumps, and 2 motors. There are 5 of these that run 24/7. A lot of labor/cost to maintain waterjets. Water jets are closer to $25-30 an hour if maintained properly.
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Last edited by kjpcummins; 01-07-2018 at 10:26 AM.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 10:38 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmega3500 View Post
Difficult to justify from a production and cost sense when.......

"Laser: 15,000 in / 70 ipm = 214.29 minutes of active cutting. 214.29 min = 3.57 hours. $13/hr * 3.57 hr = $46.41 for 15,000 inches of cutting.

Waterjet: 15,000 in / 15 ipm = 1,000 minutes of active cutting. 1,000 min = 16.67 hours. $15/hr * 16.67 hr = $250.05 for 15,000 inches of cutting.

Without considering any other factors, waterjet cutting is more than five times the cost of laser cutting per inch per hour."

Overall good comparison here: The Cost of Waterjet Vs. Laser Cutting Services | Sheet Metal Fabrication
what type of material does this guy plan to cut with the plasma table. Im guessing mild steel. I currently cut my aluminum on an air plasma and with enough speed you get very nice cuts. The newer air plasmas run other gases like F5 which makes nicer cuts if he needs to cut stainless every once in awhile.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:40 AM   #29
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I agree water jetting is definitely more expensive than all the alternatives (except wire EDM lol), you also have to clamp the material down so it doesn't float around. But that article basically sells you on laser cutting without explaining any of the wear items in a laser, which can be pretty high with a beam path laser.

Also, plasma isn't the same thing as laser.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 11:01 AM   #30
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what type of material does this guy plan to cut with the plasma table. Im guessing mild steel. I currently cut my aluminum on an air plasma and with enough speed you get very nice cuts. The newer air plasmas run other gases like F5 which makes nicer cuts if he needs to cut stainless every once in awhile.
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I agree water jetting is definitely more expensive than all the alternatives (except wire EDM lol), you also have to clamp the material down so it doesn't float around. But that article basically sells you on laser cutting without explaining any of the wear items in a laser, which can be pretty high with a beam path laser.

Also, plasma isn't the same thing as laser.
This is why I figured ask the big guys such as yourselves that do this on the daily! Input has de definitely been priceless.

So he really isn't looking to limit himself and is interested in any projects really if money is involved when it comes to the machine. Custom fab though Will be focus and this for example is a from scratch build Chris his fab guy did. It's a big black 572??? With an 8/71?? Blower that was a built crate 1100 up motor and Chris built every piece by hand custom headers and all. Only thing not fabned are the Caltracs he used.These were the early photos of the golf cart as Chris built it.

Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 01-07-2018, 11:06 AM   #31
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I think he needs a bend tech dragon/a400 aswell. At least I want or plan to get one at some point.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:14 AM   #32
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I think he needs a bend tech dragon/a400 aswell. At least I want or plan to get one at some point.
That thing is crazy to watch working.

What's the cost?
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Last edited by blackmega3500; 01-07-2018 at 11:18 AM.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 11:24 AM   #33
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That thing is crazy to watch working.

What's the cost?
The smaller tubing version a-150 is $16-19k. Not sure what they are charging for the A400.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:40 PM   #34
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This is a pic of the style guides on the down acting press similar to what we have. I tried to look and see if there was a wear surface, but couldn't really tell. I'll try and get a closer look one day.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:06 PM   #35
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This is a pic of the style guides on the down acting press similar to what we have. I tried to look and see if there was a wear surface, but couldn't really tell. I'll try and get a closer look one day.
Some of those will be steel on steel with grease grooves. Some I've seen use a a660 bronze replaceable wear plates. Then some of the higher end new stuff uses heavy linear guides. I think the bronze wear plate style will be fine and inexpensive option. I need to stop at the local welding shop and look at their press brake. It's a old mechanical Chicago 3-400ton range 10ft+. They basically got it free besides the $5K rigging to move it 30 miles. All it needs is a footing poured and set the bottom frame back in(weighs 16000lbs). Then purchase some dies and fire it up.
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Last edited by kjpcummins; 01-08-2018 at 07:11 PM.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 07:20 PM   #36
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OP,
Has your buddy talked with Capital Machine or plasma systems in Houston about a plasma?

Is he looking brand new or used?
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:39 PM   #37
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OP,
Has your buddy talked with Capital Machine or plasma systems in Houston about a plasma?

Is he looking brand new or used?
Not 100% sure on all the line of communication.

Right now I'm trying to help, he's top busy getting his "man cave" all prepped for the delivery of his Dodge Demon next week.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:27 AM   #38
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No brainer between plasma and water jet. Water jet is slow and very expensive to maintain. Plasma for fab parts, laser for detailed finished parts. Especially with holes. I tried plasma and laser for my baffles, laser was best on 14 to 22 ga. stainless. Similar price per part as well. Minimal de-burring either way. Thick material, plasma all the way.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:56 PM   #39
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The guy that runs a water jet across the road from my day job was trying to convince me to consider water jet. Since the parts im making are made from 11 gauge stainless. If i stack them and cut three sheets at once the cost per part would actually be the same as a hd plasma. Plasma i need to debur all the edges waterjet i wouldnt have to. Waterjet would cost more to purchase. The FLOW rep will be at work doing some training next week. I may try and work him to see how good of a deal I could get.
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