The argument for a real conversion injector - Page 2 - Competition Diesel.Com

lee01dg · 09-30-2009, 03:40 PM

Great info. now if we can just get someone to produce a few sets of these for the public then we would be in good shape.

BgBlDodge · 09-30-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigNasty

Stupid question but wouldn't it just be easier to design a spring with the dimensions of the vp but with the rate of the 12v? Sure might take some capital outlay to design but sold in quantity would help.

???

*Soup Nazi* · 10-01-2009, 11:19 AM

Having a spring made is really not the best idea. It "could" work, but would require a large number of hoops be jumped through to do it correctly.

Bosch has the spring manufacturing for fuel injectors down. It not easily a process to mimic and have any long term durability. There are other reasons as well. Really it is a non starter for me.

ETH/DEE · 10-01-2009, 08:10 PM

So whats the solution? All of us Ppumped guys have to settle for injectors that "should work".

Not trying to start an argument (we all know how these injector threads go), Im just curious if theres application correct injector out there for the conversion crowd.... or something that works well?

BgBlDodge · 10-01-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETH/DEE

Im just curious if theres application correct injector out there for the conversion crowd.... or something that works well?

That doesn't cost $1000. I'm sorry but I think for most of the conversion guys a VP injector with the pop off's adjusted will be just fine. For the guys going for all out power then ya, a conversion injector is worth it, but for joe schmo it's just not cost effective to drop that kinda coin on a set.

RonA · 10-01-2009, 09:06 PM

The set I got from Monster Pump Mike was the best unconverted set I've tried. They made good power without a huge amount of smoke. They do not run as smooth at idle as the F1's I have though. They were also the cheapest I've bought in a long time.

shiftycapone · 10-01-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonA

The set I got from Monster Pump Mike was the best unconverted set I've tried. They made good power without a huge amount of smoke. They do not run as smooth at idle as the F1's I have though. They were also the cheapest I've bought in a long time.

Do you have any video's of the dyno runs Ron?

I am planning a conversion soon, and am debating whether to keep the mach 6++ in the truck with the pop pressure changed, or look to a different injector? Any ideas?

*GOT-Torque* · 10-01-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soup Nazi

Finally, if you just cant get into a converted part ( for whatever reason), have your fuel shop set up the VP44 injectors to "pop" at under 240 bar. Perhaps 230-235 to start. It is a band-aid, but at least it'll idle decent.

Why would lower pop pressures idle better?

I did my ppump conversion and went with 24V injectors, 7x14's with pops at 295 bar.

Idle is better than it has even been. Very very little idle haze once warmed up. Many people have commented on how smooth it idles and sounds when bringing the rpms up at the line.

Having compared to others in person (trucks idling side by side) with very similiar setups, but with the main difference being lower pop pressures, they had way more idle haze...

BgBlDodge · 10-01-2009, 10:15 PM

Lower pops, less atomization, more haze.

*GOT-Torque* · 10-01-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BgBlDodge

Lower pops, less atomization, more haze.

Exactly and this would make the idle better how?

BgBlDodge · 10-01-2009, 11:37 PM

Not so much effort on the pump to pop off the injector? Not quite sure.

shiftycapone · 10-02-2009, 01:41 AM

Takes longer to build 290-300bar then it does 235bar, so timing is somewhat affected and can be heard at idle? No idea

*GOT-Torque* · 10-02-2009, 02:44 AM

I believe a higher pop pressure will delay timing "X" amount, however in a ppumped application this is a mute point, as you can advance the timing to compensate for the delay caused by the injectors.

zstroken · 10-02-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BgBlDodge

That doesn't cost $1000. I'm sorry but I think for most of the conversion guys a VP injector with the pop off's adjusted will be just fine. For the guys going for all out power then ya, a conversion injector is worth it, but for joe schmo it's just not cost effective to drop that kinda coin on a set.

So what about somebody like you? You less than joe schmo??

SHughes · 10-02-2009, 08:05 AM

Just to clarify Don...Are you washing your hands of doing the conversion? I was talking to Lloyd Mills awhile back and learned just how much you have on your plate right now, and see how much time and trouble the conversion is.I had planned on sending my Mach7's in for the conversion, or new custom injectors once I get into a better financial situation. But I can fully understand now if you never want to do another set.

RonA · 10-02-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiftycapone

Do you have any video's of the dyno runs Ron?

I am planning a conversion soon, and am debating whether to keep the mach 6++ in the truck with the pop pressure changed, or look to a different injector? Any ideas?

I don't have any video's. I have a set of cores here that i am playing with. So far the mods haven't been too difficult. I opened the holes where the spring sits(only slightly) and made it the same diameter all the way to the bottom. I also opened up the feed hole down to the nozzle.I need to get some parts so I can figure out how deep to make the counterbore in the sleeve so the correct pressure can be achieved with fewer shims. When reading this thread I noticed Don mentioned something about plating. My guess is the exposed metal caused by the modification will start to rust from the water in the fuel. I hadn't thought about that. I have plating done all the time and will look into a process for this.

BgBlDodge · 10-02-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstroken

So what about somebody like you? You less than joe schmo??

I'm going back to stock injectors.

dieseljunkie · 11-01-2009, 07:50 PM

This thread has left me a little empty. So what is the solution injector for p-pump 24vs?

BgBlDodge · 11-02-2009, 07:33 AM

Ideally it would be a true conversion injector. But since most people don't have that kind of money to drop on one then you can either leave your injectors at stock pop off pressure or have the pop off's lowered. I think I'm gonna leave mine alone for now and see how I like it.

SHughes · 11-02-2009, 08:57 AM

I agree...Ideally it would be a true conversion injector...I'm leaving mine at VP pressures untill I can afford to have them converted.

09-30-2009, 03:40 PM	#21
lee01dg Name: lee01dg Title: Too Much Time Status: Not Here Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SummerShade, Kentucky Member`s Gallery Posts: 379	Great info. now if we can just get someone to produce a few sets of these for the public then we would be in good shape. __________________ 01 dodge ext. cab single wheel ton 500cc ppump 24deg. full cuts, 4000gsk, FASS180 55psi .093 lines and tubes, 6x12, o-ringed ARP's and marine gasket, 64/71/14 over s475. Billet 47rh

10-01-2009, 11:19 AM	#23
Soup Nazi Name: Soup Nazi Title: The artist formerly known as Don M Status: Not Here Join Date: Sep 2006 Member`s Gallery Posts: 1,197	Having a spring made is really not the best idea. It "could" work, but would require a large number of hoops be jumped through to do it correctly. Bosch has the spring manufacturing for fuel injectors down. It not easily a process to mimic and have any long term durability. There are other reasons as well. Really it is a non starter for me. __________________

10-01-2009, 08:10 PM	#24
ETH/DEE Name: ETH/DEE Title: Fick mich Status: Not Here Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: CT Member`s Gallery Posts: 835	So whats the solution? All of us Ppumped guys have to settle for injectors that "should work". Not trying to start an argument (we all know how these injector threads go), Im just curious if theres application correct injector out there for the conversion crowd.... or something that works well? __________________ 2002 QCSB P7100 24V Colt Fuelab Sun Coast II Last edited by ETH/DEE; 10-01-2009 at 08:17 PM.

10-01-2009, 09:06 PM	#26
RonA Name: RonA Title: Too Much Time Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Liberal ground zero. Member`s Gallery Posts: 11,058	The set I got from Monster Pump Mike was the best unconverted set I've tried. They made good power without a huge amount of smoke. They do not run as smooth at idle as the F1's I have though. They were also the cheapest I've bought in a long time. __________________ 55 years of work and all I got was a T-shirt.

10-01-2009, 10:15 PM	#29
BgBlDodge Name: BgBlDodge Title: Hates hippies Status: Not Here Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buda, Tx Member`s Gallery Posts: 16,647	Lower pops, less atomization, more haze. __________________ 2003 Nissan 350z Touring 6mt 2000 4runner Limited Tyler Williams We have become educated beyond our intelligence. -Jerry Clower

10-01-2009, 11:37 PM	#31
BgBlDodge Name: BgBlDodge Title: Hates hippies Status: Not Here Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buda, Tx Member`s Gallery Posts: 16,647	Not so much effort on the pump to pop off the injector? Not quite sure. __________________ 2003 Nissan 350z Touring 6mt 2000 4runner Limited Tyler Williams We have become educated beyond our intelligence. -Jerry Clower

10-02-2009, 01:41 AM	#32
shiftycapone Name: shiftycapone Title: wandering the desert Status: Not Here Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: CA Member`s Gallery Posts: 2,034	Takes longer to build 290-300bar then it does 235bar, so timing is somewhat affected and can be heard at idle? No idea __________________ 2000 p-pump 24v 1990 d250 12v

10-02-2009, 02:44 AM	#33
GOT-Torque Name: GOT-Torque Title: is Status: Not Here Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Falls City, NE Member`s Gallery Posts: 5,284	I believe a higher pop pressure will delay timing "X" amount, however in a ppumped application this is a mute point, as you can advance the timing to compensate for the delay caused by the injectors. __________________ "Enjoy the little things in life, because one day you will look back, and realize they were the big things" EATSOOT.com

10-02-2009, 08:05 AM	#35
SHughes Name: SHughes Title: Too much is never enough! Status: Not Here Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bellevue, NE Member`s Gallery Posts: 9,272	Just to clarify Don...Are you washing your hands of doing the conversion? I was talking to Lloyd Mills awhile back and learned just how much you have on your plate right now, and see how much time and trouble the conversion is.I had planned on sending my Mach7's in for the conversion, or new custom injectors once I get into a better financial situation. But I can fully understand now if you never want to do another set.

11-01-2009, 07:50 PM	#38
dieseljunkie Name: dieseljunkie Title: Wasted Wages Status: Not Here Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Littlestown, PA Member`s Gallery Posts: 1,068	This thread has left me a little empty. So what is the solution injector for p-pump 24vs? __________________ 02 24V HO, NorthEast P-pump, , E.D. inj, ED twins, O-ringed, ARP studs, P&P and Balanced by Advanced Engine. Thanks,JWP Fab, E.D., Pure Diesel Power, GrandRock, Mumau Diesel,and Advanced Engine. 2010 FPP 2.6 points champion 2010 NADM 2.6 points champion

11-02-2009, 07:33 AM	#39
BgBlDodge Name: BgBlDodge Title: Hates hippies Status: Not Here Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buda, Tx Member`s Gallery Posts: 16,647	Ideally it would be a true conversion injector. But since most people don't have that kind of money to drop on one then you can either leave your injectors at stock pop off pressure or have the pop off's lowered. I think I'm gonna leave mine alone for now and see how I like it. __________________ 2003 Nissan 350z Touring 6mt 2000 4runner Limited Tyler Williams We have become educated beyond our intelligence. -Jerry Clower