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General Diesel Tech Farm equipment, Medium Duty, Big Rigs, and other General discussion can be found in here. |
10-31-2016, 09:15 PM
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#1
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Name: Smitty256
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Killen, Al
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Posts: 234
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Need help with ladder bars
What is everyone making ladder bars out of? Square tubing? Pics and info please! Mine will be on a dodge but any help is appreciated
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95 12v Cummins in peices
98 12v Cummins under construction
06 Cummins dropped, EFI by Robert Ivey
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10-31-2016, 10:17 PM
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#2
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Name: smokinVE
Title: $$+VE=NO HP
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93D350, VE powered, slow but reliable:-))
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
I don't think they let hair sniffer twit much. Or the little gay guy. Only the Indian does.
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11-01-2016, 04:59 AM
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#3
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Name: 06 DIESEL
Title: Dead Eye Firearms LLC
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Location: Airville, PA
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This thread is your friend.
lets see pics of traction bars - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
If you want to add information to it just PM a moderator and they can open the thread again.
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Travis
My rig - 2021 Mega 3500 SRW
My Classic - 79 Chevy Silverado
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonA
Trucks are like women. Sometimes you just need to spend money on them to keep them happy.
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11-01-2016, 05:37 AM
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#4
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
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Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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Round will be your strongest geometric shape.
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2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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11-01-2016, 09:34 AM
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#5
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Name: cquestad
Title: Too Much Time
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^^^^^Not true...to generic of a statement.
A square vs a round of the same diameter vs width/height with the same wall thickness...the square is stronger in ever measure exempt torsion about its center.
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04 Dodge MPI/Ultimate/F1/Smarty/Thuren 917hp and on a serious build
07.5 Dodge 3500
12 Dodge 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpadmax
I'm pretty sure your awesomeness gets in the way of seeing anyone else's results.
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11-01-2016, 09:41 AM
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#6
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
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Location: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken
Round will be your strongest geometric shape.
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I'd disagree. Round is going to give you the most torsional strength. Square tube would likely be stronger in the bending moments that'll be put on it.
Remember, the forces on them is almost solely rotating the axle and shoving the end of the bar into the frame.
That being said, I'd build it out of round because it looks so much better!
And I personally like the style with a shackle up front. a 'floating' ladder bar. Much less binding.
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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11-01-2016, 09:44 AM
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#7
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Name: cquestad
Title: Too Much Time
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The way the ends are connected will dictate the force in the bar...whether is is axial...compression/tension or moment...bending or both.
A shackle on one end and fixed at the axle...will make it a bending type.
__________________
04 Dodge MPI/Ultimate/F1/Smarty/Thuren 917hp and on a serious build
07.5 Dodge 3500
12 Dodge 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpadmax
I'm pretty sure your awesomeness gets in the way of seeing anyone else's results.
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11-01-2016, 05:06 PM
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#8
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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Posts: 23,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cquestad
^^^^^Not true...to generic of a statement.
A square vs a round of the same diameter vs width/height with the same wall thickness...the square is stronger in ever measure exempt torsion about its center.
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Well are we talking 2" OD diameter, and 2" width/height? Or 2" OD diameter and 1.41" width/height?
__________________
2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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11-01-2016, 05:45 PM
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#9
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
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Location: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cquestad
The way the ends are connected will dictate the force in the bar...whether is is axial...compression/tension or moment...bending or both.
A shackle on one end and fixed at the axle...will make it a bending type.
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Ladder bars are fixed at the axle and have a bending moment on them, assuming no binding (why I called out the floating design).
Traction bars are a single floating bar in compression.
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
Last edited by CorneliusRox; 11-01-2016 at 05:50 PM.
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11-01-2016, 06:31 PM
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#10
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Name: cquestad
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Posts: 1,696
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2" OD vs 2" width/height
__________________
04 Dodge MPI/Ultimate/F1/Smarty/Thuren 917hp and on a serious build
07.5 Dodge 3500
12 Dodge 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpadmax
I'm pretty sure your awesomeness gets in the way of seeing anyone else's results.
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11-01-2016, 06:40 PM
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#11
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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Posts: 23,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cquestad
2" OD vs 2" width/height
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So in general is a 2"OD stronger than 1.414" width/height?
__________________
2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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11-01-2016, 08:01 PM
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#12
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,820
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What about an I/H beam design?
(I want to go down in oraller history like Rudolph)
Carbon fiber I beams
I thought anything with rounded structures faired better under stress than to have corners (stress risers)
Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
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Check out @bdmaximusworx
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-Little Sexy
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Insta @trash.panda250
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11-02-2016, 08:23 AM
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#13
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken
So in general is a 2"OD stronger than 1.414" width/height?
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I built a simple calculator real quick. Here's what I found:
2" Solid bar 4' long in bending with a load of 3000N will only have a stress of 284.19MPa.
1.414" Solid Square bar 4' long in bending with a load of 3000N will have a stress of 473.69MPa
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238
What about an I/H beam design?
(I want to go down in oraller history like Rudolph)
Carbon fiber I beams
I thought anything with rounded structures faired better under stress than to have corners (stress risers)
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Carbon fiber for one, isn't a long term solution. Every time it deforms, it breaks bonds and degrades. If you're using it only in a torsional application, it works pretty well. Bending and tensile it is still alright. Compression is doesn't love.
And I-beams are better in certain applications. This might even be one.
This is what I got for a 4' long, 3000N loaded I-beam that's 2" wide, 2" tall, and 1/2" thick.
It has a stress of 184.72MPa (which is the best yet). These hate torsional loading, but as long as you're not trying to get axle articulation (think off-roading style twisting), this would fight your bending forces really well.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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11-02-2016, 09:20 AM
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#14
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,820
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Carbon fiber was an oraller joke. I'm sorry.
The opportunity to articulate and see compression load should be low I would think.
Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
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11-02-2016, 10:30 AM
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#15
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238
Carbon fiber was an oraller joke. I'm sorry.
The opportunity to articulate and see compression load should be low I would think.
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I agree with a floating ladder bar setup. Fixed, or a traction bar setup would both have some compression on them.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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11-02-2016, 11:23 AM
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#16
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,820
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I'm not communicating so well......
Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
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11-02-2016, 11:25 AM
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#17
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Name: cquestad
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Posts: 1,696
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Compression strut is far more simple...lighter and takes advantage of existing strength of the leaf spring.
Period.
__________________
04 Dodge MPI/Ultimate/F1/Smarty/Thuren 917hp and on a serious build
07.5 Dodge 3500
12 Dodge 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpadmax
I'm pretty sure your awesomeness gets in the way of seeing anyone else's results.
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11-02-2016, 11:47 AM
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#18
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cquestad
Compression strut is far more simple...lighter and takes advantage of existing strength of the leaf spring.
Period.
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When you say 'compression strut', do you mean the same thing as a traction bar?
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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11-02-2016, 12:02 PM
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#19
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Name: cquestad
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Posts: 1,696
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Yes...mount the lower rod end directly below the axle...3" is a nice offset.
36-48 inch bars are plenty long. 36 on a low truck...48 on a high truck.
1 1/2 Sch 40 Pipe is more than enough.
__________________
04 Dodge MPI/Ultimate/F1/Smarty/Thuren 917hp and on a serious build
07.5 Dodge 3500
12 Dodge 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpadmax
I'm pretty sure your awesomeness gets in the way of seeing anyone else's results.
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