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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
04-23-2010, 02:06 PM
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#581
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Name: bh10
Title: Web Wrencher
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Iowa, now in Georgia, again
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCzerak
stock springs float over 3200rpm and 45psi boost. especially ones with 100,000 miles on them.
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Guess again
__________________
14 CTD
95 12v
Big Thanks To PURE DIESEL POWER CSnyder @ Snyder Motorsports
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04-23-2010, 03:04 PM
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#582
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Name: JasonCzerak
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bella Vista, AR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 14,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bh10
Guess again
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Ummm. I had all kinda of popping noises when I got the smarty and running near 3500.. installed new springs... noises gone.....
__________________
2014 Mercedes Benz E63s - 620awhp
2006 Corvette - 1000whp-ish
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04-23-2010, 03:10 PM
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#583
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Name: JasonCzerak
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bella Vista, AR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 14,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Cams
boost pressure and spring pressure are a very small part of why a better pushrod is needed. Here is a study I did a while back. No opinions just numbers.
Zach
The following equations are for average cylinder pressure not peak which would be much higher for short moments. At the points in which the pushrods will be affected average is more precise such as exhaust opening. Also for horsepower the equation calls for BHP which is at the flywheel. For this I assume any reading obtained at the rear wheels will have a 16% loss in the driveline. For the equation to see how your cylinder pressure lines up look at the second number whiich is a derivative of the BHP. Also a lot of the trucks I have seen peak at around 2600rpm
792,000xBHP/C.I.x rpm=avg cyl pressure
325hp at crank = 273 at the wheels= 275psi
600 hp at crank=504 at wheels= 509psi.
750=630hp at the wheels=636psi
1000=840hpat the wheels=848psi
1200=1008hp at the wheels=1018 psi
now lets figure load on the pushrod factoring 2.65 sq. in. of valve face surface area
275 hp=273psi x2.65sq in=728lbs +220lbs spring press. X1.34 exh. rocker ratio is 1271lbs.
504hp= 2102 lbs force on pushrod
630= 2553lbs on pushrod
1000=3306 lbs on pushrod
1200= 3909 lbs on pushrod
Now here is where the rubber meets the road. Factory pushods are rated at 1794 lbs, motorsport supply 1982 lbs. Hamilton 3/8" 2064 and Hamilton 7/16" 4035. over 500rearwheel horsepower you at least need the 3/8 .095 wall over 630Rwhp you really need to jump to the 7/16" .120" wall. If you don't the pushrod bends first then opens the valve. It delays the valve opening which reduces spool and power. If you are a low budget street racer you will not notice much difference in spoolup or major power but if you are racing or sled pulling and want to make sure you don't snuff that big charger down the line, use a better pushrod to open the exhaust on time at full power. It will help the chargers stay lit by not retarding the exh opening.
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Wow, interesting. Question. The old "boost peaks at XX, but drops to "XX-5psi"... Is that directly related to the push rod flexing?
__________________
2014 Mercedes Benz E63s - 620awhp
2006 Corvette - 1000whp-ish
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04-23-2010, 07:02 PM
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#584
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Name: bh10
Title: Web Wrencher
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Iowa, now in Georgia, again
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,974
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Cams
boost pressure and spring pressure are a very small part of why a better pushrod is needed. Here is a study I did a while back. No opinions just numbers.
Zach
The following equations are for average cylinder pressure not peak which would be much higher for short moments. At the points in which the pushrods will be affected average is more precise such as exhaust opening. Also for horsepower the equation calls for BHP which is at the flywheel. For this I assume any reading obtained at the rear wheels will have a 16% loss in the driveline. For the equation to see how your cylinder pressure lines up look at the second number whiich is a derivative of the BHP. Also a lot of the trucks I have seen peak at around 2600rpm
792,000xBHP/C.I.x rpm=avg cyl pressure
325hp at crank = 273 at the wheels= 275psi
600 hp at crank=504 at wheels= 509psi.
750=630hp at the wheels=636psi
1000=840hpat the wheels=848psi
1200=1008hp at the wheels=1018 psi
now lets figure load on the pushrod factoring 2.65 sq. in. of valve face surface area
275 hp=273psi x2.65sq in=728lbs +220lbs spring press. X1.34 exh. rocker ratio is 1271lbs.
504hp= 2102 lbs force on pushrod
630= 2553lbs on pushrod
1000=3306 lbs on pushrod
1200= 3909 lbs on pushrod
Now here is where the rubber meets the road. Factory pushods are rated at 1794 lbs, motorsport supply 1982 lbs. Hamilton 3/8" 2064 and Hamilton 7/16" 4035. over 500rearwheel horsepower you at least need the 3/8 .095 wall over 630Rwhp you really need to jump to the 7/16" .120" wall. If you don't the pushrod bends first then opens the valve. It delays the valve opening which reduces spool and power. If you are a low budget street racer you will not notice much difference in spoolup or major power but if you are racing or sled pulling and want to make sure you don't snuff that big charger down the line, use a better pushrod to open the exhaust on time at full power. It will help the chargers stay lit by not retarding the exh opening.
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So really all thats needed is the exhaust side?
__________________
14 CTD
95 12v
Big Thanks To PURE DIESEL POWER CSnyder @ Snyder Motorsports
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04-26-2010, 04:35 PM
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#585
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,950
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New info on poss. cause here..
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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04-28-2010, 03:12 PM
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#586
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,950
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Post from my other thread...Just making sure it's seen.
New Information!!!
Ok! I spoke with Joe (I think he's the owner) at PPE.
First off, Very nice guy and gave me plenty of attention to my questions.
He explained more about the fuel controller, how it works, and what happens if it fails....The long and the short of it is this, His explanation basically says that if the box fails, gets broken, has a bad ground, or looses power, that the system is designed to let the TOP pump (supplied with my kit - dmax pump) go to full 100%........Yet the BOTTOM pump gets cut to virtually 0% demanded pressure.....
So, even with a rail cap he stated that there would not be enough pressure to hang an injector that bad and melt down a motor.....After all that he explained, I can see how things work a bit better.
Why and What was exactly wrong with my controller was never exactly explained other than to say "there were just a few things that did not test to specs so we replaced it even with it being over a year old"....This was done as a courtesy to me given that the kit had very few miles on it...
I got to explain again what happened at the track and why Jeff attempted to re-thread the fuel line JUST to get me cranked and off the track....He understood.
SO, if what they say is really correct about the function of the controller, I now find it hard to believe that it was the sole cause to my pressure spike so high to blow the line and melt the motor.....
And additionally, Joe offered to refund the money to my Card for the fuel line and fitting after understanding why it was "over torqued" at the track.
Now even though I am still puzzled about the complete cause of my carnage, I can say that I feel better about the fact that PPE's controller was probably not the sole cause....I guess I will simply just put this behind me now and carry on with my build. Hoping and praying that my luck changes with this one!
Thank you Joe / PPE for putting up with me and taking the time to explain things better for me. Also thank you for being generous enough to refund the fuel line cost!
David Elrod
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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04-29-2010, 10:31 AM
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#587
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Name: joelc79
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rootstown, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,075
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Someone must have pointed him to a certain thread on CompD thread
__________________
I got a diesel truck...
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04-29-2010, 11:50 AM
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#588
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Name: WUnderwood
Title: CompD Minion
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelc79
Someone must have pointed him to a certain thread on CompD thread
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X 2
__________________
2011 Ford F-150 Lariat 4X4
RIP BFD99, jponder, and Forrest Nearing
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