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Old 09-10-2011, 06:48 AM   #1
4bt bowtie

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4BT Power Recipie

I am looking for any input as to what would be required to get approx. 350 RWHP from a 4BT, either a VE or P-pump. So far I have only come across VE pump engines but info for a P-Pump model would be nice. I Plan on rebuilding the engine from the ground up and having the rotating assembly balanced. I am considering shot peening the connecting rods just to add some extra strength for future plans while I’m in there. I have seen a few people use the PDR diesel camshaft for the 4bt with good results and curious as to how much of an improvement it is over stock. Does anyone know? The engine will have an intercooler. For the VE pump I’m going with the obvious: 3500 rpm governor spring, probably a fuel pin and some meticulous tuning. I am guessing a set of POD injectors would be required for this power level but I may be wrong. I am going to use head studs for good measure and I am thinking of running a compound turbo set up, perhaps an early model H1C with the 9cm2 turbine over an hx40 or something along those lines. The engine is going in a 1990 Chevy S10 and my goal is to have a RELIABLE daily driver that barely smokes when it is all said and done. Any knowledge would be much appreciated.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 07:06 AM   #2
LReiff

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Good first post!

Turbocharger...look for a HE341 off a 03-04 dodge or an HY35 off an 01-02 dodge, both have a 9cm turbine housing and flow enough to support 350hp being too laggy.

Injectors...I would recommend 7x12 sac type tips with modified pintle lift.

Cam...Colt Cams has a 181/210 grind that will drop in and spool that charger nicely.

Pump...A p-pump will get you there the easiest.
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Last edited by LReiff; 09-10-2011 at 07:13 AM.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 03:45 PM   #3
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You don't hear much about 4BT builds but P-pump would be the way to go if you can.

Jim
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #4
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I'm at about 275hp on fuel with a VE pump and twin turbos. Pretty much all a VE will do.
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Cams View Post
P-pump for a 4bt Cummins - eBay (item 180720186248 end time Sep-11-11 23:02:19 PDT)

At 420 cc's of fuel that should meet 350hp easily.

4bt engines due to the lack of displacement are always fighting to spool the chargers. Getting a good injection pump a decent flowing head and a good cam will help a lot. Look at the 188-220 as it will make more power and spool the chargers much better than the PDR cam.

Zach
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Old 09-11-2011, 06:39 AM   #6
4bt bowtie

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Thanks for the quick replies, I posted a similar thread on 4btswaps.com and it took weeks to hear anything and none of the replies were very helpful.
I don't know exactly what the specs are for the POD injectors as far as orifice size, quantity etc., but where would I find the injectors mentioned by LReiff? I am guessing they would be a custom order, or am I wrong? Since the head will be at the machine shop any way for new valve guides, would it be worth the $$$ to have it ported, and or polished, If nothing else at least on the exhaust side to help with turbo spool up?

I checked out the Colt Cams website and could not find an actual 4bt cam offered other than the custom cam made for the SBC rail. I also checked out the Hamilton cam which I like, would I need to upgrade the valve springs since I am not running large amounts of boost or excessively high RPM?

I've read other builds where people used the HY35 turbo and a consistent issue I've seen mentioned is higher EGT's with the HY versus the HX35. Has anyone seen this same problem? If I used the Hamilton 188-220 cam and had the head ported and polished, would this compensate for the larger turbine on the HX35 and limit turbo lag similar to what the HY would have?

I have also heard of a hybrid turbo that uses a stock non-waste gated H1C turbo from an early model dodge then replace the turbine housing with smaller 9cm 2 housing. Supposedly this set up has quicker spool up than the HY35 due to the smaller impeller used in the 4bt turbo. Has anyone heard of this?

Thanks again for the input.
 
Old 09-11-2011, 07:44 AM   #7
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yeah the 4btswaps site is packed full of good info, but for the most part the members over there are looking for mileage with these motors not hp, so not a whole lot of high hp knowlege over there from what ive seen. Heck seems like thats all they care about on this site is going fast and big hp numbers! which is great.
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:31 AM   #8
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I've got a 188/220 as well as Zach's springs. Using a HE341 for the turbo. Ported head and inline pump like the one shown above on ebay. I do have another spare pump, brand new untouched I would sell for a few hundred less than the one shown above.

I haven't had a chance to put the engine in the truck yet, but hope to as soon as I get my new garage framed up. Going into a 96 RCLB.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:13 PM   #9
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Does the 188-220 need flycuts?
 
Old 09-12-2011, 03:23 AM   #10
4bt bowtie

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Again, thanks for the info. Any other thoughts as to the turbo options or where I might be able to source the injectors from? They sound custom but I could be wrong.

Also out of curiosity, LReiff, what where your considerations for choosing those particular injectors?
 
Old 09-12-2011, 07:43 AM   #11
LReiff

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As long as the spray angle is correct, those nozzles make power and fuel mileage. To determine spray angle, you will need to know piston bowl design, pump type and target injection timing. Depending on pump type, the hole size may also need to be different.

Last edited by LReiff; 09-12-2011 at 07:44 AM.
 
Old 09-15-2011, 04:16 AM   #12
4bt bowtie

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Okay, makes sense. Do you have any reccomendations as to where I might be able to buy those injectors, assuming those are indeed the ones I need?
 
Old 09-17-2011, 04:45 PM   #13
4bt bowtie

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Would it be worth my time and cash to have the head ported and or polished?
 
Old 09-17-2011, 04:48 PM   #14
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you could clean up the head in a few hours, with air tools and the right equipment
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:32 PM   #15
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i have a set of barely used pod injectors i will let go cheap if your interested pm me
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:19 AM   #16
4bt bowtie

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Thanks for the offer on the injectors but I'll pass. What is the general concensus on aftermarket gasket sets? I have seen various companies that offer full gasket sets and full rebuild kits for the 4bt and they are cheaper in price than OE Cummins parts. My suspicion is that they are cheaper in quality as well, am I right?
 
Old 09-21-2011, 02:44 AM   #17
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Non intercooled piston, 155° injector. You could use a JD nozzle if you desired to, but I believe a cylindrical sac type injector might not be best for efficiency.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:04 PM   #18
4bt bowtie

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What Is the design difference between the intercooled and non-Intercooled pistons?
 
Old 09-22-2011, 08:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bt bowtie View Post
Thanks for the offer on the injectors but I'll pass. What is the general concensus on aftermarket gasket sets? I have seen various companies that offer full gasket sets and full rebuild kits for the 4bt and they are cheaper in price than OE Cummins parts. My suspicion is that they are cheaper in quality as well, am I right?
I would use an OE Cummins head gasket, other gaskets and seals are not so critical.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bt bowtie View Post
What Is the design difference between the intercooled and non-Intercooled pistons?
Bowl type and size.
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