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Old 10-03-2017, 07:50 AM   #1
turbo2387
 
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cost of diesel emissions

fighting yet another $%$&Q#@$&#@$ %)(*#@)(@*$(* emissions related problem again this morning. its all I ever seem to get done.

I wonder how much emission related garbage cost fleet and small business owners per year across the US?

I also wonder how much the businesses across the country have invested in equipment such as filter cleaning ovens and technician training to get this garbage technology out to us.

also consider the gazzilions of dollars some oil company is making on millions of gallons of DEF we are now burning through our exhausts.

how in the world is anything aftertreatment system related good for anybody but the people producing them and the people feeding them fuel? MPG continues to go down while we inject more and more crap into an $8000 exhaust system that constantly has issues. 30 years ago we could get 20mpg from a 1 ton truck on #2 alone. now we struggle to get 16 with all this extra craPPP and some how its better for the environment?

which senator do I need to write to?
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:48 AM   #2
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That's what I've been saying since I first went to school for HD and learned how all this garbage works. Cleaning up emissions on the wrong end of the engine for starters. And then, how in the world is it better for the environment to use twice as much fuel to supposedly have "cleaner" exhaust? The energy cost to research, invent, develope, maintain, repair and train..... Yikes.

I believe the answer is there's more money to be made this way. Nobody actually cares about the environment.

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Old 10-03-2017, 11:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyEdition View Post

I believe the answer is there's more money to be made this way. Nobody actually cares about the environment.
I think many of the politicians actually believe that they are doing good (and I know that many are in it just for the money and control) and it's the oil companies and the like that are pushing all the climate change and environment BS that just use the left as puppets to pad their pockets.

I have said for a long time that if the government only mandated fuel economy standards on vehicles and nothing else, both the consumer and the environment would win.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:53 AM   #4
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We did a cost analysis for "one" customer fleet on the ISX engines they run. We only counted emissions related repairs. Both warranty, and customer billable repairs.

June 2016-June 2017
-12 trucks totaled $164,254.59 Parts and labor.
For comparison, we looked at regular engine repairs not related to emission control repairs (Cams, rockers, turbos, etc.) 37.545.22


That is one fleet of trucks in western Pennsylvania owned by one guy.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:29 PM   #5
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Exactly! I run a schools bus fleet. We blow thousands of taxpayers dollars for stuff that has nothing to do with education and safe transportation to keep junk on the road.

Junk that cost about 100k per unit and has emissions issue right out of the box. We buy $4500 warrentees that are specific for emission equipment.

I wanna get ahold of some big wig and do some behind the tool shed explaining.

Last edited by turbo2387; 10-03-2017 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:43 PM   #6
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Happy I work on farm equipment...had DEF since 2008, and I'll bet I haven't done $100K in repairs yet...probably closer to $50K...

The other colors seem to have more issues with it, don't know why. Our engine manufacturer must be doing something right. Now, I'm not saying we have zero issues, but I'm definitely not shopping for someone to do deletes on our tractors...it's just not that big a problem.


I have also been driving newer emissions pickups since then as well with apparently very good luck as well, because our fleet hasn't cost us a dollar for emissions related problems save my 2 6.7L Dodge's that I deleted because of fuel in the oil. The Duramax's keep on running, a couple with 280K+ miles.

Now, the 2009 Peterbilt with the C15 Acert made up for it...now we have a glider...
Chris
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:48 PM   #7
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if say 800 farmers across the nation spent $50,000 over the last 10 years for emission related problems they otherwise wouldn't have had that's

$40,000,000.00 into someone else's pocket. and that's just 800 farms with their farm equipment that accounts for a fraction of a fraction of the emissions equipment being used today.

this is a billion dollar government funded F-up program. billions. The idiots in charge of this mystery program probably don't even know how to change their oil let alone make something run better.

Last edited by turbo2387; 10-03-2017 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by turbo2387 View Post
if say 800 farmers across the nation spent $50,000 over the last 10 years for emission related problems they otherwise wouldn't have had that's

$40,000,000.00 into someone else's pocket. and that's just 800 farms with their farm equipment that accounts for a fraction of a fraction of the emissions equipment being used today.

this is a billion dollar government funded F-up program. billions. The idiots in charge of this mystery program probably don't even know how to change their oil let alone make something run better.
Didn't say anything about it not being important or not being normal emissions problem...I was giving my experience. Ag Equipment goes to the field and runs full load, and for some reason works better than trucks.

I would also agree that equipment with less emission equipment gets better fuel efficiency, but you also have to remember across the board we have increased power levels significantly in the same time...that will also increase fuel usage but most people don't usually account for that in their complaints.


I'm definitely not saying the system isn't broken, or working perfectly, but you're not going to get the government to take a step 10 years backwards or even 5 years backwards. It's here to stay...IMHO

Chris
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:31 PM   #9
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this guy voted for Obama. had to have.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:55 PM   #10
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You talking about me?

Chris
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:01 PM   #11
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well ya. lol
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:08 PM   #12
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Keep dreaming. God forbid someone share a positive and dissenting experience with modern emissions equipment. Has to make them a democrat that can't think for themselves?

Think whatever you like.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:12 PM   #13
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lol now you get it. its not all bad. but most of it seems to be. ended up today someone had put gasoline in the DEF tank. ruined the entire system. will be several thousand to replace.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:32 PM   #14
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The duty cycle is most of the problem, idling-city driving-not pulling heavy enough is everything that kills a DPF.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:37 PM   #15
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lol now you get it. its not all bad. but most of it seems to be. ended up today someone had put gasoline in the DEF tank. ruined the entire system. will be several thousand to replace.
That's another thing I can't figure out. We've had customers put diesel in their DEF tanks, DEF in their diesel tanks, etc, and I've heard all these horror stories about how much it costs...

We must be hillbilly enough we just never checked. We've always drained the system, or systems, taken them apart and cleaned all the lines, and put it all back together...still running.
We had a common rail suck up enough DEF to kill the engine, we drained the system and cleaned it all, and got it running again ad it's still running...2850 hours later...same customer did the same thing to his Ford 6.7L and it cost him like $18K in repairs?? It's basically the same parts?


Again, I'm not arguing that there isn't a problem here, but I can't understand some of the repair costs...We've repair all parts of a SCR system, and they don't cost that much. Keep in mind we run SCR and EGR, no DPF...maybe that makes all the difference?

Chris
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:40 PM   #16
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I don't know who he voted for, but I do agree with him on the "here to stay".

I also can say that there are a lot of higher mileage trucks running that have a no issues.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:02 PM   #17
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I don't know who he voted for, but I do agree with him on the "here to stay".

I also can say that there are a lot of higher mileage trucks running that have a no issues.
I can guarantee all of you that as a small business owner you can guess precisely who I voted for.


I deleted the 2007.5 6.7L Dodge when I bought it with 448K miles...still had everything on on it then.
Chris
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:06 PM   #18
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Sanders, right?
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:20 PM   #19
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Chris is right on, and I didn't vote for Obama, either.

I'm also in the school bus business, we have over 800 buses plus 350+ "White Fleet" vehicles, and we see a LOT of emissions related issues, warranty and non-warranty. We have over 200 '16 and '17 model IC buses with Cummins 6.7's and they are constantly down at our shop or at the dealer for emission related failures. I surmise that Ag equipment and OTR trucks don't have the emissions issues we see on school buses because they are running at a more constant rate than a school bus which is constantly starting and stopping.

Yes, it costs us a lot of money and lots of problems to repair, but as Chris said, it's here to stay. The EPA isn't going to back up. Might as well get used to it. A lot of school transportation departments are going to LP so they don't have to deal with the emissions issues. We have three here right now that we're evaluating with the Roush V-10's.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:40 PM   #20
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Sanders, right?
You know it.


My, and my customers opinions are we understand the crap is here to stay, but if we could hold the requirements at current levels and let the manufacturers get the technology reliable as the rest of the engine, then we can work with this stuff.

Chris
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