Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Tech > 94-98 2nd Gen. 12V
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-25-2017, 09:18 PM   #1
TruckYou
 
TruckYou's Avatar

Name: TruckYou
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2016
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 132
Headstuds Options for compounds

So I'm getting started with a new project right now, Dropping a P Pumped 12v in my Non ic 1st gen, with a built 47rh. IV spent all winter collecting parts, and currently one of the purchases I have yet to make is headstuds. It's going to have a s362/S475 compound set on it, big sticks, meth, 4kgsk. It is a hobby truck, and will be ran pretty hard. I due plan on pulling the head, resurfacing, and possibly O rings...

As for studs, I see there's alot if products on the market, and most have something good and bad to say about each. I planned on ARP 425s, but IV heard they aren't recommended for big boost compounds. 625s? A1? H11?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
Old 02-25-2017, 09:30 PM   #2
cetanefreek

Name: cetanefreek
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Idaho
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 716
My 425s did just fine at 85 psi with o-rings
 
Old 02-25-2017, 09:40 PM   #3
wildbill144
 
wildbill144's Avatar

Name: wildbill144
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake's region NH
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 91
If you can swing it go 625's , fire ring it with haisley's if its apart and feasible, just my .02 .
__________________
98 12v tow pig plow truck. 97cclb 7"lift,DOR full kit, long arm's etc.37 toyo MT,ARB's F/R,4.56 35 spl axels. Engine trans being built
 
Old 02-25-2017, 10:07 PM   #4
TruckYou
 
TruckYou's Avatar

Name: TruckYou
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2016
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 132
Firerings and O rings are a foreign language to me. Nothing IV ever done before. If I'm understanding correctly, it's machining a groove into the head and inserting a steel ring? Do you know a ballpark idea of how much money a resurface/firerings or O rings should be expected to cost? I keep preaching to my self to spend the money (hopefully) once and be done with it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
Old 02-25-2017, 10:19 PM   #5
cetanefreek

Name: cetanefreek
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Idaho
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 716
O-ring is when you cut a Groove into the head and insert a stainless wire into it to bite into the gasket better. A fire ring is when you cut matching grooves in the head and block remove the fire ring section from the head gasket and use a ring in place of it to help seal the combustion gases better.
 
Old 02-25-2017, 10:30 PM   #6
TruckYou
 
TruckYou's Avatar

Name: TruckYou
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2016
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 132
Oh OK, so in order to firering you must have both the block and head machined ...

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
Old 02-25-2017, 11:10 PM   #7
cetanefreek

Name: cetanefreek
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Idaho
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 716
That is my understanding at least.
 
Old 02-26-2017, 05:49 AM   #8
smknram
 
smknram's Avatar

Name: smknram
Title: "ADICTED"
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckYou View Post
Oh OK, so in order to firering you must have both the block and head machined ...

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
That is the best way to do fire rings. You can do just a groove in the head with a fire ring but it will not hold up as well from my personal experience.

Fire rings also don't like heat cycles, they tend to prematurely crack when being used on a street truck.

IMO go with o-rings on a good flat head, with 625's, do proper retorques and you should not have anything to worry about.
__________________
2003 Crew Cab LB7

2012 Mega Cab 6.7
 
Old 02-26-2017, 06:55 AM   #9
jasonc

Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,396
For a street truck you need to go with o-rings in the head on a stock gasket. You can get away with stock bolts and carefully torque them to 140flbs or so. The shop local to me that does alot of these heads charges $300 for surface and
O-rings.
 
Old 02-26-2017, 10:31 PM   #10
chevota84
 
chevota84's Avatar

Name: chevota84
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prineville, OR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,926
The cheap arp's and o rings have held 75psi towing and dd'ing for 5 years for me.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
99 Dodge 2500 with stuff
 
Old 02-27-2017, 08:51 AM   #11
jlbayes
 
jlbayes's Avatar

Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
A 1200 dollar set of studs and then another few hundred dollar oring or fire ring maching costs? All to hold a mild compound setup......guess I am doing it wrong with 425s and a flat head.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
 
Old 02-27-2017, 09:54 AM   #12
jasonc

Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes View Post
A 1200 dollar set of studs and then another few hundred dollar oring or fire ring maching costs? All to hold a mild compound setup......guess I am doing it wrong with 425s and a flat head.
My old work truck had a s358 over s475 on a stock engine just retorqed the head when I put them on. I ran that for like 60k miles with no problems, bumped the timing from 18 to 23 and blew the head gasket on the first test drive.
 
Old 02-27-2017, 10:19 AM   #13
jlbayes
 
jlbayes's Avatar

Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
Mines at 24* with a 66/86 set of compounds lol
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
 
Old 02-27-2017, 08:36 PM   #14
smknram
 
smknram's Avatar

Name: smknram
Title: "ADICTED"
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 187
High timing and compounds has always been a killer for me. I ran a 35/ht3b combo for years with stock head, head gasket, and head bolts at 16* and doing whatever i wanted with the truck and never had a failure. Then on the next truck with the same turbo set up but at 22* i couldn't get a gasket to hold with 425s and o-rings. I had the orginal head surfaced and even bought a new head and had it surfaced also. It would hold at 20* but would blow any higher than that. Ended up going to a big single and then it was fine.

So I'm not saying that $1200 studs are "needed" but just made a recommendation from my experience. I would rather have the piece of mind that it's over kill than wondering if it's on borrowed time.
__________________
2003 Crew Cab LB7

2012 Mega Cab 6.7
 
Old 02-27-2017, 09:13 PM   #15
Rich dzl
 
Rich dzl's Avatar

Name: Rich dzl
Title: 12v guru
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 741
Deck and o-ring the head ARP 425 are fine 3 re-torques . Find a shop in your area that has o-ringed a cummins head before or send it off to get done . Over 50 o-ringed 12v never had any trouble , Had as high as 110 psi with 14mm studs .
 
Old 02-27-2017, 10:23 PM   #16
DDually
 
DDually's Avatar

Name: DDually
Title: Still spooling..
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes View Post
Mines at 24* with a 66/86 set of compounds lol
What is your compression ratio?
__________________
1995 Cummins with almost no matching paint, 2 dents

2001 VW TDI South bend, tune, nozzys, custom stuff that's rusting, one custom thing that's not rusting
 
Old 02-28-2017, 05:49 AM   #17
zfaylor
 
zfaylor's Avatar

Name: zfaylor
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: P-TOWN!, Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,024
Put 625s in it with orings if you can afford to and be done. It will be the last time you touch the head unless you melt it down or want to port it later.

Personally, I like to spend some extra now and be done. Headgasket repairs are the most annoying repair on the truck next to the transmission and tappet cover. The A1 studs (very similar to 425) I put in my last truck felt like chit when I torqued them. Wished I went 625s the entire time.
__________________
2015 half ton heavy chevy
81 Fairmont LS project
Many yard ornament projects...

North American Turbo

Last edited by zfaylor; 02-28-2017 at 05:53 AM.
 
Old 02-28-2017, 08:18 AM   #18
jlbayes
 
jlbayes's Avatar

Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDually View Post
What is your compression ratio?
Stock, 16.3:1
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
 
Old 02-28-2017, 04:35 PM   #19
kawi600
 
kawi600's Avatar

Name: kawi600
Title: got Coal for Christmas
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: communist urban hell
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 861
625s arent cheap but theyre good insurance. They dont stretch as much under load and are resistant to corrosion so you can re-use them for longer.
Theres a lot of labor involved in messing with the head. if you have any thoughts about porting you might want to do that at the same time.
timing, boost, drugs and beating on a cold engine are head gasket killers.
__________________
Psalm 144
Psalm 37:10,11
Isaiah 65:20
 
Old 03-03-2017, 02:56 PM   #20
JQmile
 
JQmile's Avatar

Name: JQmile
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,976
Standard ARP's and O-rings should do ok. Make sure to use plenty of lube on the nut, washer, and stud. You can over-torque them a little, but ARP doesn't recommend it.
__________________
89 Dodge 972rwhp on the hose, still a VE!
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39 PM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2024, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com