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Old 04-02-2008, 02:25 PM   #1
4x4dually
 
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VP44 SO vs. HO pump and Quote

I'm prolly gonna need a new pump soon the way my truck is running. Can you pump guys tell me EXACTLY what the difference in the two pumps are?

Max 'reliable' HP with my mods?
Does one wire tap better than the other? Why?
What are internal differences?
Warranty with wire tapped?
HRVP44 worth a toss? Why not?
Swappable without any hassles (converting to SO from HO)?
Could my injectors be causing this one to fail? How do I match new ones to a new pump?
How do I avoid the "your core isn't good enough, send us more money" problem?
What causes the pumps to fail the most?
Should I just send this one in to get rebuilt to save money or is "save money" not a term that is synonomous with a new pump?

I would like to run around 400 HP with the ability to hit 500 if I can ever afford more toys. I have a Vulvan big line relo kit and LP pressure is 16 idle, 13-14 cruising, and 10-11 at WOT. Edge Juice w/ Attitude w/ wire tapped. II PS62/14 turbo. Edge Jammer IV (125 hp) sticks. AFE stage II intake.

Any info would be great, and please, no speculation. ACTUAL info would be greatly appreciated as I can't afford to buy one twice. This truck doesn't see sleds or race tracks but pulls heavy trailers miles on end.

Thanks for any help!!! JWB
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:35 PM   #2
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1. I'd say 450hp.
2. HO's don't push the same amount of fuel as an SO therefore they tend to tap out around 500hp.
3. I believe the HO plungers are smaller but don't quote me. I know the HO is higher pressure but lower volume than the SO which is lower pressure but higher volume.
4. I think bluechip is the only one that warranty's wire tapped pumps.
5. If you want to risk a lopey idle and spend the extra $800 then go ahead with the HRVP. Personally though, I wouldn't waste the money. If you want to leave the wire untapped then yeah, it might be worth a little power. But if you tap the wire it's not gonna make any more power than an SO pump.
6. All you do is swap the pumps. That's it. It'll work perfect.
7. I highly doubt it's the injectors. VP's just fail. Look at mine.
8. If your pump is running half ass when you send it to them then you shouldn't have any problem with a core.
9. Lately it tends to be electronics failure. It's believed that the heat and vibration of the motor along with tapping the wire can cause it to fail but nobody is for certain why they fail. They just do.
10. All VP's these days are remanufactured. Assuming that the electronics are going out (which it doesn't sound like in your case) then you can replace the electronics for about $450. But you'd need to have the pump tested to make sure and that's around $150.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:40 PM   #3
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I have the one off my 24v about 1 year old, feed with a MITUSA 17psi 24/7 has been tapped. $700 no core

Brett
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:04 PM   #4
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Thanks Brett. I'll keep that in mind. Hopefully when it goes or I decide to buy you'll still have it!

Pretty good write up here about internals.

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/VP44INFO.html
 
Old 04-02-2008, 04:46 PM   #5
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for what its worth

my HRVP44 did 496hp with smarty and injectors only

this weekend the truck only did 416 with the same smarty/injector combo on a SO pump.

with a wire tap box it does with in the same max hp 560-570 with TST or redline. there is def some timing/power in the HRVP44...but only if you are wanting to run without a wire tap box.
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:43 PM   #6
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That's what I'm saying. If your looking to not tap the wire then a HRVP is worth it. But with a tapped wire it ain't worth the extra money. You could put that money towards a set of injectors or a turbo.
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getblown5.9 View Post
for what its worth

my HRVP44 did 496hp with smarty and injectors only

this weekend the truck only did 416 with the same smarty/injector combo on a SO pump.

with a wire tap box it does with in the same max hp 560-570 with TST or redline. there is def some timing/power in the HRVP44...but only if you are wanting to run without a wire tap box.

Interesting info, 80 hp difference in just the pump... I did 467 on injectors alone (HRVP44), with a smarty it was around 536?

Going with a HRVP44, you get more hp out of the pump, but less out of the boxes...

I've got a HRVP44 in the classifieds, however since you tow alot, I would lean towards recommending not getting one. You want the ability to turn down the hp when towing. You can't turn a HRVP44 off...
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:00 PM   #8
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I think an SO pump would be just fine for you Jory.
 
Old 04-02-2008, 09:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOT-Torque View Post
Interesting info, 80 hp difference in just the pump... I did 467 on injectors alone (HRVP44), with a smarty it was around 536?

Going with a HRVP44, you get more hp out of the pump, but less out of the boxes...

I've got a HRVP44 in the classifieds, however since you tow alot, I would lean towards recommending not getting one. You want the ability to turn down the hp when towing. You can't turn a HRVP44 off...
i got 470 without the smarty and only 496 with it...
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:47 PM   #10
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We were the first to make a HRVP44 pump. Since, others have try'd to do the same. Ours work very good. Others are not so good. The examples I see in this thread are NOT the only opinions on the subject. Tunning is a bigger thing than a HRVP44 and a Smarty etc. There have been many trucks that make more hp than you are showing with a HRVP44. Our HRVP44 pumps are as close to a new pump as can be bought. New PSG, Head, Cam, piston, housing etc. If you buy a HRVP44 with a used head you may not get full delivery. I have seen cheap deals on Ebay, internet sites etc. Cheap deals are usually less quality and less delivery. Some of these pumps have been made by people or shops that don't do VP44 pumps and don't have the tooling or training. We have been making larger delivery VP44 pumps. We are in the testing phase and are working through the bugs trying to get them ready to sell. There will be 2 versions but we will not release them until we are ready. They will be called Dragonflow VP44 and Super Dragonflow VP44. Thanks, Brady / II
 
Old 04-04-2008, 10:43 AM   #11
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So, Brady, or anyone else, can you expand on the differences of the HO and SO pumps and pros/cons of each? That is what I really want to know. I have heard the SO has lower pressure but delivers more fuel, true? Which would work better in my configuration? I know the electronics are different, but how? Which responds better to say and Edge Juice? If I have injectors that don't pop at the same pressure, can that damage a pump?
 
Old 04-04-2008, 02:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopFueler View Post
We were the first to make a HRVP44 pump. Since, others have try'd to do the same. Ours work very good. Others are not so good. The examples I see in this thread are NOT the only opinions on the subject. Tunning is a bigger thing than a HRVP44 and a Smarty etc. There have been many trucks that make more hp than you are showing with a HRVP44. Our HRVP44 pumps are as close to a new pump as can be bought. New PSG, Head, Cam, piston, housing etc. If you buy a HRVP44 with a used head you may not get full delivery. I have seen cheap deals on Ebay, internet sites etc. Cheap deals are usually less quality and less delivery. Some of these pumps have been made by people or shops that don't do VP44 pumps and don't have the tooling or training. We have been making larger delivery VP44 pumps. We are in the testing phase and are working through the bugs trying to get them ready to sell. There will be 2 versions but we will not release them until we are ready. They will be called Dragonflow VP44 and Super Dragonflow VP44. Thanks, Brady / II

Could this be Industrials response to the "Mystery Pump" everybodys so skeptical about? I HOPE!!! NOT INTENDED TO HIGHJACK THIS THREAD, JUSY MY .02$
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4dually View Post
So, Brady, or anyone else, can you expand on the differences of the HO and SO pumps and pros/cons of each? That is what I really want to know. I have heard the SO has lower pressure but delivers more fuel, true? Which would work better in my configuration? I know the electronics are different, but how? Which responds better to say and Edge Juice? If I have injectors that don't pop at the same pressure, can that damage a pump?
And SO will be better off with your Edge Juice over the HO pump
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETH/DEE View Post
Could this be Industrials response to the "Mystery Pump" everybodys so skeptical about? I HOPE!!! NOT INTENDED TO HIGHJACK THIS THREAD, JUSY MY .02$
For God sake, don't get that "mystery chit" started in my thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dzlfarmboy View Post
And SO will be better off with your Edge Juice over the HO pump
Please explain why? I want to know WHY!!!!
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:07 PM   #15
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The little bit that I found while researching was that the SO pumped more cc's at a lower pressure. The HO pumped more pressure but lower cc's. ???

I also heard (again can't say if it's true or not), the same 100 hp rated injectors installed on a SO truck would make 90 hp, but on a HO truck would make 100 hp. However, electronics on a SO truck would make more of a difference than on a HO truck.

The only things I really learned were that vp44's fail faster than you like. They all are limited by fuel delivery. i.e. a max hp between 600 and 700. And they can't support high rpm...
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:21 PM   #16
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I have also heard the electronics on an SO truck respond better but I don't want to make a purchase of that magnitude over what I heard while consuming alcohol at an event! Just looking for facts. Thanks guys, keep it comin'. I will never make over 500 ponies with this truck just for the fact that I will probably buy a new mega cab before I drop $5G on twins or more mods. I'll probably retire this truck with just want she has in her unless someone want to detune their truck and swap me some good chit for some worse chit.
 
Old 04-04-2008, 03:39 PM   #17
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The SO vp44 has larger delivery valves than the HO pump. More volume.
I think dzlfarmboy is offering you a deal, but I doubt he's gonna warranty it. Not saying he should. It's a used pump
Warranty is tough with the wire tapped.
Your injectors did not causing your failure, although if your thinking the pop pressure is not set right, it really needs to be.
The VP44 fails on buses and UPS trucks and allot of vehicles besides Dodges without any mods what so ever. They can be improved upon and have been, but they are still a rotary style pump with fuel as the only lubricant between timing rotor and body.
They are just nasty. It's not your fault.
 
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