691 and almost 1400 TQ on 200 Inj's

BogginF350 said:
You cannot empty the factory injector with a stock nozzle. They increase nozzle size to utilize the extra mm^ of fuel. I feel a stock injector holds 500rwhp if we could tune pulsewidth
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I can only give my personal experience...I've installed several sets of injectors with bigger nozzles only...all the trucks smoked a bit more (which the owners seemed to like) but didn't run any better at the track. I'm not impressed with them and wouldn't recommend a set to anyone myself.
Just my opinion...nothing else.
 
You are both saying different things. Richard, you are saying that just a larger nozzle does not seem to help. Does that include advancing the timing? I ask because let's assume that the stock injector just can't be totally emptied with a stock nozzle and the stock pulse width (duration of opening). If timing is not advanced, then I would guess a bigger nozzle would have worse performance for the most part because atomization would definitely be worse, and while a bit more fuel might get in, that would be cancelled by the poor atomization, evidenced by the smoke. But if you advance the timing, you are giving it a little more time to combust, which should yield a little better results. So, the question is, with your tests with larger nozzles on the stock injector, do you advance the timing and still see no real gains?

Josh, what you are saying is that the pulse width is not enough. I picture the injector as small piston forcing the fuel out through the restrictive nozzle. The restrictive nozzle is great for giving extreme atomization, which is great for combustion efficiency, but it also means that at the end of the "opening" (when the pulse width window closes), there is still fuel in the chamber that was not able to make it out. I think that is what you are saying. In that case, I agree; from an engineering standpoint, it makes a lot more sense to extend the pulse width through a restricted nozzle to get more finely atomized fuel than it does to enlarge the nozzle. I'm not sure what it would take (I think you mentioned a modded FICM approach), but that is the way to go.

Question, if the current window is 2.6ms, what is the practical limit when one considers advanced timing (to a reasonable level) and the latest fuel can be delivered during combustion? 4ms? 5?

Ralph
 
Ralph...I can't answer your question about timing. The trucks I put those in were customer trucks when I worked for Diesel Innovations...all I did was install. Tuning was handled by them afterwards.
 
The Ideal pulsewidth would be in the 4ms range. We have one right now that is re-written with 4.6ms. This was the max calculated to be able to not overlap at said rpm and still keep timing in the sweet spot.
 
That will be the secret to maxxing power with any size injector. Keeping the nozzle small for atomization while spraying longer.

Ralph
 
bones said:
nice numbers and with the inject size being used and nos pill size,if you take into account different dno and different day the dude claiming 755 may not have been as full of it as many thought...
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I know for a fact that Frankie did dyno 755hp. He does not run our tunes and I have no pending interest in this. I heard Frankie got attacked by the masses.

WAO Racing said:
I have never said that or anything like that. I have already told you I have stock injectors and stock turbo. That means not modified in any way other than what the SCT can do with them. Now If you still dont believe it get your cash and your a$$ down here and i will prove it. ENOUGH SAID!
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I also know for a fact that Mike's truck is completely stock with a tune only. I've seen it up close and personal as many also did at Moroso this last time, so why it's questionable, I don't understand.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I beginning to wonder if you need to call people in the middle of night in order to be believed.

Thanks,
Vivian
 
MOMBENZ said:
I know for a fact that Frankie did dyno 755hp. He does not run our tunes and I have no pending interest in this. I heard Frankie got attacked by the masses.



I also know for a fact that Mike's truck is completely stock with a tune only. I've seen it up close and personal as many also did at Moroso this last time, so why it's questionable, I don't understand.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I beginning to wonder if you need to call people in the middle of night in order to be believed.

Thanks,
Vivian
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Please start another thread on this. There are some STRONG opinions on it and it can be discussed in an adult fashion (not saying anything about you Vivian, but even your quotes hint at an issue we have dealt with on other sites) if those involved want to get into the technical issues/science.

Ralph
 
ralphinnj said:
Please start another thread on this. There are some STRONG opinions on it and it can be discussed in an adult fashion (not saying anything about you Vivian, but even your quotes hint at an issue we have dealt with on other sites) if those involved want to get into the technical issues/science.

Ralph
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Thank you, Ralph...
 
Abrannan19 said:
yes stock hpop
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I'm told that 275's are the limit of the stock HPOP, so 200's should be ok I would think. I think in reality, the stock HPOP is just shy of feeding 275's.

Ralph
 
ralphinnj said:
I'm told that 275's are the limit of the stock HPOP, so 200's should be ok I would think. I think in reality, the stock HPOP is just shy of feeding 275's.

Ralph
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I am told the same..but I haven't tested it..nor will I..some say its less..who knows?
 
ralphinnj said:
Please start another thread on this. There are some STRONG opinions on it and it can be discussed in an adult fashion (not saying anything about you Vivian, but even your quotes hint at an issue we have dealt with on other sites) if those involved want to get into the technical issues/science.

Ralph
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:clap:
 
ralphinnj said:
I'm told that 275's are the limit of the stock HPOP, so 200's should be ok I would think. I think in reality, the stock HPOP is just shy of feeding 275's.

Ralph
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My high pressure oil was steady to 4950 rpm's with 225's using AE to monitor HPOP pressures. It did drop a slight bit more than the stock injectors off idle but never got even close to being a concern.
 
I think the dyno that Doug uses is all screwy. He is always posting high number that just don't add up to me.

Let me explain my reasoning:

Tadd, considered by many to be the most knowledgeable with the 6.0. Is considered by most to be the best injector builder there is. Just overall a pioneer in the 6.0 world. Had a bigger turbo than just a wheel in the compressor, bigger injectors, and alot more NOS makes 708 rwhp only 17 hp more than this truck.
Maybe your programming is better? Wait that would mean that you are saying Tadd doesn't know how to program! Maybe Bean builts better injectors, are you saying Tadd doesn't know how to build injectors?

Redneck, Twin turbos, 340 cc hybrid injectors, plenty of nos, ..... makes 728 and is the current highest hp 6.0 known. Only 37 more hp than this truck. Maybe Innovative didn't know how to tune his truck properly!

So I now have to ask my self, "Does Doug know more than Tadd?"
"Bean builds better injectors than Tadd?" "You guys know more about getting the NOS set better than DJ." "Doug is the best SCT programmer for the 6.0"

I just can't seem to answer YES to all the above questions. So I say the numbers sound fishy!!!
 
lubeowner said:
I think the dyno that Doug uses is all screwy. He is always posting high number that just don't add up to me.

Let me explain my reasoning:

Tadd, considered by many to be the most knowledgeable with the 6.0. Is considered by most to be the best injector builder there is. Just overall a pioneer in the 6.0 world. Had a bigger turbo than just a wheel in the compressor, bigger injectors, and alot more NOS makes 708 rwhp only 17 hp more than this truck.
Maybe your programming is better? Wait that would mean that you are saying Tadd doesn't know how to program! Maybe Bean builts better injectors, are you saying Tadd doesn't know how to build injectors?

Redneck, Twin turbos, 340 cc hybrid injectors, plenty of nos, ..... makes 728 and is the current highest hp 6.0 known. Only 37 more hp than this truck. Maybe Innovative didn't know how to tune his truck properly!

So I now have to ask my self, "Does Doug know more than Tadd?"
"Bean builds better injectors than Tadd?" "You guys know more about getting the NOS set better than DJ." "Doug is the best SCT programmer for the 6.0"

I just can't seem to answer YES to all the above questions. So I say the numbers sound fishy!!!
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Im with you 100% on this,you can sway a dyno to read in your faver.$.02
 
I dont agree..I think that its reasonable..I ran my truck on that same dyno..it did 438/859

all of those number are in order to a larger jet..and its biggest jet used was a .91

but like it was said above..even if you have huge injectors( kinda for show) unless you have the HPOP to support it..its not much more then a number..

is doug the best tuner..probably not..

is tadd the best tuner..probably not..

do they both have different techniques..yes..

but just because someone make more horsepower with smaller CC sticks and a diffrent turbo then what tadd had..doesn't mean that the person is better then the other..but obviously it does to you.
 
Abrannan19 said:
but just because someone make more horsepower with smaller CC sticks and a diffrent turbo then what tadd had..doesn't mean that the person is better then the other.
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So wouldn't that arguement apply to Frankie as well?
 
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