Building a 2WD - I need some help with a turbo please...

12ValveDakota

12ValveDakota

Diesel Smoke
I just recently found this forum, wow a 2WD diesel pulling site! How can life get any better :)

A little info about what I am doing. I have been pulling V-8 minirods for several years and we recently decided to start a 2WD midweight small truck class. Diesel engines are allowed, so naturally I am going with a Cummins. I have a 95 model 12 valve and NV 4500 trans and I'm building the truck from a 94 Dakota.

I have read and reread forums and posts till I am crosseyed. :bang I am on a budget (who ain't) so for now the injectors and dv's, head bolts, and head gasket will stay stock. I already have the timing set at 16.5 degrees, 2 mm added to the rack travel, and I am planning on running it without a plate or afc foot. For starters I am going with a 3K GSK also.

Enough ramblin already.... I know the stock WH1C turbo is going to limit me a lot, and I am having a hard time understanding all the turbo numbers and sizes. I found a HX50W with a 17 CM int. wastegated ex housing, (I think that's a good one??), he says the compressor has a 63mm inducer and 97mm Exducer, and the turbine is 72mm and 88mm. The guys wants $300 for it and he says it is in good shape. Can I get this one spooled with stock inj and dv's? Are these numbers good for what I'm doing or bad? I know that some of the early pulling turbos were built on HX50s. Can somebody give me some help.....please.
 
I think the 3Kgsk will actually hurt you more, it will take a few more RPMs to keep that turbo spooled. I would at least go with the 4Kgsk. A stock pump can be tuned to fuel well, but once again I think the stock injector will then be the limiting fact then. I would at least find some cheap aftermarket injectors... even 370's would help alot.
 
If you don't have a rpm limit go with 5K springs you will like them better and put a 0 plate in don't run with out one.you will need the rpm's for the 50 good cheep turbo to start with I am on a very tite budject my self. good luck What tire's are you going to run.

Dale
 
JFlagg said:
I think the 3Kgsk will actually hurt you more, it will take a few more RPMs to keep that turbo spooled. I would at least go with the 4Kgsk. A stock pump can be tuned to fuel well, but once again I think the stock injector will then be the limiting fact then. I would at least find some cheap aftermarket injectors... even 370's would help alot.
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What you say makes sense, to keep it spooled will take a lot of fuel and rpm I guess. I see where I can get a 4K GSK kit from PDR and it's pretty reasonable, exhaust springs not bad either. I guess I will study on GSK some more and keep my ears open for a bargain on injectors.

2wpuller: We don't have an rpm limit, our rules are pretty wide on engines, the idea is that weight, tire size and hitch will limit us. Where do I find a 5K GSK, and what all will I need to do to the engine to turn that besides valve springs? I have read it seems like a thousand posts discussing 0 plates vs plateless, and to tell you the truth, I will probably just have to see which works best for me. Our max tire for the class is a 34x18x15. BTW, thats a really nice job yall are doing on 2WD your building!

So, do you guys think I should try to get this turbo? Is the wastegated housing a disadvantage?

Thanks for your replies, I appreciate all the help, and would like for anyone else to chime in also.
 
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No the wastegate has no advantage to what your doing.
Haisley Michine as the 5K springs.

What is the weight of your class.

Dale
 
X2 ON AT LEAST THE 4K'S BUT THE 5K'S ARE GOING TO SUIT YOU A LOT BETTER THAN THE 4'S. pLUS THEY ARENT MUCH MORE!

But with the 50 and some good injectors, a set up pump and valve springs, you should have a nice set up to start with. Then you can build from there and start to know what else will help the truck perform better!


BTW, that sounds like an interesting class!!!!
 
2wpuller said:
No the wastegate has no advantage to what your doing.
Haisley Michine as the 5K springs.

What is the weight of your class.

Dale
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I will check into the 5K setup from Haisley, thanks for the tip on that. Is there anything else I will need to do to the engine besides exhaust valve springs to make it live above 4K?

We haven't set the weight in "stone" yet, but it is probably going to be 3500 to 4000 lbs. It depends somewhat on how light we can build a small truck with a big truck drivetrain in it. We just don't want more than our sled can handle.

Thanks to everyone for all the help, and yes Jeff we are hoping that a lot of guys down here will get interested in the class.
 
12ValveDakota said:
I will check into the 5K setup from Haisley, thanks for the tip on that. Is there anything else I will need to do to the engine besides exhaust valve springs to make it live above 4K?

We haven't set the weight in "stone" yet, but it is probably going to be 3500 to 4000 lbs. It depends somewhat on how light we can build a small truck with a big truck drivetrain in it. We just don't want more than our sled can handle.

Thanks to everyone for all the help, and yes Jeff we are hoping that a lot of guys down here will get interested in the class.
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All the valve spring not just exhaust.The more boost you put to the motor the stronger the valve spring needs to be for the higher RPMs.It all goes hand in hand.There was a club in southwester Missouri.called Southwest Pullers they used to run minitruck withsmall block motors limmited to 380ci.and with 34x15x18 and 106 rockwells I was going to put a 5.9 in one then I was talked into building the one we are doing now.My brother and my soninlaw are in it with me.

Dale
 
2wpuller said:
All the valve spring not just exhaust.The more boost you put to the motor the stronger the valve spring needs to be for the higher RPMs.It all goes hand in hand.There was a club in southwester Missouri.called Southwest Pullers they used to run minitruck withsmall block motors limmited to 380ci.and with 34x15x18 and 106 rockwells I was going to put a 5.9 in one then I was talked into building the one we are doing now.My brother and my soninlaw are in it with me.

Dale
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That all makes sense to me, I guess I will save a few more nickels and try to get the 5K kit, and all the valve springs.

We got the idea for this class after seeing a club in Missouri, don't know how far they are from you. http://www.jandlsledteam.50megs.com/about_3.html Plus a couple of other clubs in KY.

We figured the class would go pretty well with our other classes, so we are gonna give it a try. Another guy is putting a truck together with a BB chevy in it. We both are running 14 bolt GM axles. They may not hold up, but mine is already narrowed and under the Dakota, so I guess if it won't hold the Cummins I will step up to a Rockwell. Thanks again for all the help, I will probably have more questions... BTW your truck is awesome!
 
Ok I have to ask... You can actually spin 5k on a stock bottom end??? I thought the limit was 4100rpm before harmonics start to hurt you?

Oh and if you have a friend who works on diesels at all you can pick up a set of nozzles for pretty cheap. I picked mine up for $200 on a group buy, I think they're still under $250 regular priced. PM me about info and putting them together if you don't have any friends that can assemble injectors.

Also, a little more timing and a mack rack plug seem to be the trick for the 160/175 pumps :Cheer:
 
BlackSkyRacing said:
Ok I have to ask... You can actually spin 5k on a stock bottom end??? I thought the limit was 4100rpm before harmonics start to hurt you?

Oh and if you have a friend who works on diesels at all you can pick up a set of nozzles for pretty cheap. I picked mine up for $200 on a group buy, I think they're still under $250 regular priced. PM me about info and putting them together if you don't have any friends that can assemble injectors.

Also, a little more timing and a mack rack plug seem to be the trick for the 160/175 pumps :Cheer:
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I'm a little further along since my last post. The engine is still in the shop floor, but I have the 5k gsk spring kit in and I changed all the valve springs out. I went with a set of 5x16 injectors (they are in), and I did the rack plug. For h/g reasons, I set the timing at 18.5. For now I torqued the headbolts to 130, but I know it's just a matter of time.... Studs will be next.

I haven't done anything to the plate yet, but figure on grinding it to an 0. Also I have an afc housing that has already been gutted, so I am going to try it. Went with an hx55 66/73/19 turbo, guess I just have to try it to if I have enough to spool it. Should I change delivery valves? I don't want so much fuel I put out the fire...


I really don't plan on turning it to 5k with the stock bottom end, don't really think I'll push it much over 4k, but went with that kit for future use....

Thanks for the help and info offer. :thankyou2: At this point, I am waiting on Dan to get my DD clutch built, then when I get that in, I can start working on the engine/trans install into the truck.

What do you guys think about this parts/combo for my engine and it's intended application?
 
Just checking to see how it's coming along... Never got the alert that you had replied (strange cause I did subscribe).

That set up sounds like it should run pretty strong. Are you still running the stock delivery valves? I know people like them, but IMO I would stay away from laser cuts. They deliver the fuel late, make a lot of heat, and have actually made some trucks perform worse on #2 only.

That turbo should spool decent, the VGT turbo I'm running is about a 60/74/26 when full open and I have tried it with it held full open and it spooled faster than my HX40 :bang Granted your turbo still has a bigger wheel and shaft, you also have more rpm and fuel :Cheer:
 
BlackSkyRacing said:
Just checking to see how it's coming along... Never got the alert that you had replied (strange cause I did subscribe).

That set up sounds like it should run pretty strong. Are you still running the stock delivery valves? I know people like them, but IMO I would stay away from laser cuts. They deliver the fuel late, make a lot of heat, and have actually made some trucks perform worse on #2 only.

That turbo should spool decent, the VGT turbo I'm running is about a 60/74/26 when full open and I have tried it with it held full open and it spooled faster than my HX40 :bang Granted your turbo still has a bigger wheel and shaft, you also have more rpm and fuel :Cheer:
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Ive been busy with other things and havent done a lot to the truck this month. I did get the motor/trans in the body and the engine mounts fabbed, so the engine is sitting on the frame, but the rear (trans) mount is still sitting on blocks.

It still has the stock delivery valves, I guess I will start with them and see how is does.

Lots of stuff to do yet before it will be ready. :banghead:

:thankyou2: for the reply
 
2wpuller said:
Just keep on plugging along you get done.

Dale
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Thanks. Yeah the problem is I'm pluggin on to many projects....

Right now theres a minirod in my shop with a turboed Nissan SD22 4cyl diesel in it. It sure likes to smoke the place up! :st: :hehe:

I'll get back on the Dakota after this next pull is over. I REALLY want to hook it this year.....
 
12ValveDakota said:
Thanks. Yeah the problem is I'm pluggin on to many projects....

Right now theres a minirod in my shop with a turboed Nissan SD22 4cyl diesel in it. It sure likes to smoke the place up! :st: :hehe:

I'll get back on the Dakota after this next pull is over. I REALLY want to hook it this year.....
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Boy, you sound like me. Too many irons in the fire. Sure would like to see a pic or a vid of the minirod.... please.

Lynn
 
12Valve said:
pics of the motor install would be nice!

how are you going about radiators?
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Its not much to look at right now, has a huge hole in firewall and floorboard! :D I get time I'll shoot a few pics of it. So far as radiator, from measuring I think I can make one out of a late 70s F250 gasser work, the Dodge radiator is waaaayyyyy to long. There is no room for intercooler, so I am going to go with air to water on that.

Fireman450 said:
Boy, you sound like me. Too many irons in the fire. Sure would like to see a pic or a vid of the minirod.... please.

Lynn
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I bought the minirod from a guy in NY. I have some of his pictures but I am making several changes like paint, decals, exhaust and I want to wait till I get done before I take any. I'll post some when I do. I have looked all over youtube and cant find a pull video of it. We have a big 2 nighter here first week in August, so hopefully I'll get some vid then.

How many years have you been in fire service? I'm a volunteer ff here, so the Dakota is going to have a fire truck theme.....

Byrl
 
12ValveDakota said:
Its not much to look at right now, has a huge hole in firewall and floorboard! :D I get time I'll shoot a few pics of it. So far as radiator, from measuring I think I can make one out of a late 70s F250 gasser work, the Dodge radiator is waaaayyyyy to long. There is no room for intercooler, so I am going to go with air to water on that.

Byrl
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my understanding was that you could put the 6bt cummins in there without changing the firewall. am i wrong? i know the front end is gonna be harder, cuz of the need for room for radiators

i have this idea in my head of building a dakota too with a 6bt in there, and no intercooler, or a water-air intercooler...
 
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