BBI Austria

[biggy238]

This sounds interesting. What drew you to them?
I remember some of the claims they were making here. Did they ever have any 3rd party validation here in the US? I assume they had to have in order for you to be a vendor for them.

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[4x4dually]

Ol' Zach goes down under huh? Interesting.

[RascalMafia]

Originally Posted by 4x4dually

Ol' Zach goes down under huh? Interesting.

That's Australia, squirrel face

[4x4dually]

Austria.....whale schidt. I screwed that up!

[Snedge]

Originally Posted by 4x4dually

Austria.....whale schidt. I screwed that up!

Collage educated engineer. Not geographer. All good.

[4x4dually]

That's why we have drawing checkers around here.

[Justappumped24v]

All I can tell you is trying to tune them is a pain in the ass. Really Smokey up top, really hazy down low. In my opinion they are no better than a Industrial Injection Reman.

[WUnderwood]

Originally Posted by 4x4dually

Austria.....whale schidt. I screwed that up!

Need another cup of coffee, SquirrelFace?

[RonA]

"said I didn't have much use for a camshaft. Never said I didn't know how to use one".
Mathew Quigley

[Texashighways]

Originally Posted by biggy238

This sounds interesting. What drew you to them?
I remember some of the claims they were making here. Did they ever have any 3rd party validation here in the US? I assume they had to have in order for you to be a vendor for them.

Sent from my motorola one vision using Tapatalk

I've spent the last three years visiting injector and nozzle manufacturers all over the world and until Martin at BBi, not a single person was able to answer all of the questions. The reason I think he was able to answer all of my questions is that he was on the team that designed the dodge injector at Bosch in Linz Austria at Bosch's R&D lab

I will say that up until now they have not been focused on really high rpm cummins (5,000rpm and over) and over 2,000hp but we are pushing BBi hard in that area. The fact that he was on the team that designed the Lemans Audi R15 injector that was capable of operation up to 9,000rpm makes me confident that he will rise to the challenge. Spending a lot of time in Germany and Austria this last year and a half has opened my eyes to the interesting culture there that has allowed innovation in injection. These Germans and Austrians really have it together, and the experience gained at Bosch I feel have given them the technical depth to solve any challenge I throw at them in a way that still allows the injectors to be controllable and balance cylinder to cylinder better than the other guys. I'm not taking away from any of the US manufacturers since there are some guys doing some really cool things, but I believe these injectors are the best. Right now we carry stage 1-3 that are the tightest and most controllable and balanced on the market as well as the stage 4's that have body mods for high rpm operation. He is currently working on a stage 5 with even faster body mods that should take 5,000+rpm engines to the next level.

Before I met Martin, I was developing a new piston and nozzle design instead of just basing my work on existing 5.9 and 6.7 injectors and pistons. What I found in him was a partner to develop a new type of combustion, not just a high flow nozzle for existing piston designs or body modded injectors. I think the days of injector companies not quarterbacking the piston and the injector package together is coming to an end. But doing all of this alone is a difficult task. The injector piston interaction is the basis of power production. Mis-matched power is difficult to make, matched correctly, power just happens and tuning is much easier. With our new steel 6.7l pistons and our ceramic matrix forged pistons higher temps can be sustained and new designs of injectors can be exploited. So in short we are partnering with them because they have the technical know how to solve complex problems with injection in a timely manner. We are trying some really bold designs now like a 12 hole nozzle and a radical 5, 6, 7 and 8 hole for different applications. I think limited motors like the 3.0 class and then all out UCC type builds will have some interesting piston injector combos as of mid February. But then again there are some interesting things going on by US manufacturers so it is pushing everybody to new levels. Competition pushes us all to be better so customers ultimately win.

As to them being hard to tune and smoky, I have found quite the opposite to be the case as have all of the people I have talked to. After spending a year and a half at manufacturers, the most important thing that stands out is that when modifying existing injectors, it is almost impossible to re-EDM and hone
injectors perfectly matched. Oblong holes, hole to hole variation, nozzle holes swelling to exit variation (k factor) all make cylinder to cylinder balance difficult even if the injectors are balanced flow wise at the 4 test points, fuel is not distributed evenly in the cylinder. Starting with a piece manufactured from the start for high performance will always outperform worked over OEM nozzles. EDM then hydro erosion for balance, is superior to EDM, hydro erosion for balance from the factory then Re-EDM then Extrude honed for balance. So with all do respect, saying Brand X, with the above mentioned 4 step process can hold tolerances as good as a piece made with EDM then hydro erosion for the aftermarket application from the start is an ignorant statement. With all do respect... There I said it twice.


Also don't feel bad about the Stralia/Austria mixup, I get that at least 50% of the time. Gary Floater - Thats When the Eagle Screams - YouTube Sorry that might be a bit much

[biggy238]

Originally Posted by Texashighways

I've spent the last three years visiting injector and nozzle manufacturers all over the world and until Martin at BBi, not a single person was able to answer all of the questions. The reason I think he was able to answer all of my questions is that he was on the team that designed the dodge injector at Bosch in Linz Austria at Bosch's R&D lab

I will say that up until now they have not been focused on really high rpm cummins (5,000rpm and over) and over 2,000hp but we are pushing BBi hard in that area. The fact that he was on the team that designed the Lemans Audi R15 injector that was capable of operation up to 9,000rpm makes me confident that he will rise to the challenge. Spending a lot of time in Germany and Austria this last year and a half has opened my eyes to the interesting culture there that has allowed innovation in injection. These Germans and Austrians really have it together, and the experience gained at Bosch I feel have given them the technical depth to solve any challenge I throw at them in a way that still allows the injectors to be controllable and balance cylinder to cylinder better than the other guys. I'm not taking away from any of the US manufacturers since there are some guys doing some really cool things, but I believe these injectors are the best. Right now we carry stage 1-3 that are the tightest and most controllable and balanced on the market as well as the stage 4's that have body mods for high rpm operation. He is currently working on a stage 5 with even faster body mods that should take 5,000+rpm engines to the next level.

Before I met Martin, I was developing a new piston and nozzle design instead of just basing my work on existing 5.9 and 6.7 injectors and pistons. What I found in him was a partner to develop a new type of combustion, not just a high flow nozzle for existing piston designs or body modded injectors. I think the days of injector companies not quarterbacking the piston and the injector package together is coming to an end. But doing all of this alone is a difficult task. The injector piston interaction is the basis of power production. Mis-matched power is difficult to make, matched correctly, power just happens and tuning is much easier. With our new steel 6.7l pistons and our ceramic matrix forged pistons higher temps can be sustained and new designs of injectors can be exploited. So in short we are partnering with them because they have the technical know how to solve complex problems with injection in a timely manner. We are trying some really bold designs now like a 12 hole nozzle and a radical 5, 6, 7 and 8 hole for different applications. I think limited motors like the 3.0 class and then all out UCC type builds will have some interesting piston injector combos as of mid February. But then again there are some interesting things going on by US manufacturers so it is pushing everybody to new levels. Competition pushes us all to be better so customers ultimately win.

As to them being hard to tune and smoky, I have found quite the opposite to be the case as have all of the people I have talked to. After spending a year and a half at manufacturers, the most important thing that stands out is that when modifying existing injectors, it is almost impossible to re-EDM and hone
injectors perfectly matched. Oblong holes, hole to hole variation, nozzle holes swelling to exit variation (k factor) all make cylinder to cylinder balance difficult even if the injectors are balanced flow wise at the 4 test points, fuel is not distributed evenly in the cylinder. Starting with a piece manufactured from the start for high performance will always outperform worked over OEM nozzles. EDM then hydro erosion for balance, is superior to EDM, hydro erosion for balance from the factory then Re-EDM then Extrude honed for balance. So with all do respect, saying Brand X, with the above mentioned 4 step process can hold tolerances as good as a piece made with EDM then hydro erosion for the aftermarket application from the start is an ignorant statement. With all do respect... There I said it twice.


Also don't feel bad about the Stralia/Austria mixup, I get that at least 50% of the time. Gary Floater - Thats When the Eagle Screams - YouTube Sorry that might be a bit much

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Excellent reply.


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[Red Sleeper]

I absolutely enjoy watching the evolution of this sport. 10 year old discussion topics being revisited and new questions being asked to drive innovation for the industry.
Thanks for the great reply.

[biggy238]

Originally Posted by Red Sleeper

I absolutely enjoy watching the evolution of this sport. 10 year old discussion topics being revisited and new questions being asked to drive innovation for the industry.
Thanks for the great reply.

That's why I wanted to know what Zack saw in them.
A lot of the information stated by BBI sounds the same as back then. As I remember it, the topic dead-ended when an offer to test the product head to head here in the states was never taken up.

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[Mark Nixon]

Originally Posted by biggy238

That's why I wanted to know what Zack saw in them.
A lot of the information stated by BBI sounds the same as back then. As I remember it, the topic dead-ended when an offer to test the product head to head here in the states was never taken up.

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Putting it less succinctly, I recall a certain representative of BBI being an arrogant ass.

I also think company heads at Bosch should be tarred and feathered for the crap LB7 and 5.9 CR injectors they allowed their engineers to push on the OEMs.

Also, the cause is the cure?

Mark.

[Texashighways]

Agreed on the failures in the past but I think labelling BBI as the cause and the cure is shortsighted.

As far as the charge of arrogant ass, The two owners are tip top chill guys. Did you speak with an American or someone that sounded like Arnold?