Pre Turbo Injection

[Kronic_187]

= frozen and cracked intercooler ?

[5.9 Cummins Fan]

Originally Posted by 300D

Water cannot freeze in a radiator that is above ambient temperature. The only point it could possibly freeze is briefly as its vaporized after the nozzle.

Assuming its above freezing ambient. WI definitely should not be used pre-intercooler or pre-turbo in freezing weather.

What the heck are you talking about? You went from intercooler to raditor....yes compressed/heated air can hold more water and when the truck is shut off and cooling down water can condense and collect in the intercooler, air isn't pumped through the radiator dude. If its below freezing it will probably crack the intercooler. I don't think water droplets hitting the compressor wheel would work out so well, with it spinning that fast it might as well be a bit of dirt, eroding the edges of the blades. Even if it didn't erode the compressor wheel, I think post-turbo injection would work better since you're not compressing the water vapors heating them wih the air that is being compressed. When injected post turbo/intercooler, the charge air is cooled as the water exchanges btu's with the air ......but I'm just a pup what would I know

[Sandaholic]

If you haven't tried precompressor injection then what do you have to add to the thread besides theories and BS. I have done it, it works. If used for competition purposes with proper atomization it will not erode a compressor wheel. I won't say daily use would be as benign. I have not tested it as I see no reason to use it day in and day out.

If you're scared to do it then don't.

[OrangeNV]

Originally Posted by 300D

An intercooler is a radiator, anything that dissipates heat from a fluid to the atmosphere is a radiator.

technically its a heat exchanger

but ive never tried it, so im not sure i should post in here

[XLR8R]

Hard to argue with a decade of successfully spraying H20 onto the same compressor inducer - but we don't use Innercoolers, either... instead I usually spec an Atmospheric Non-Ferrous Passive Mode Isobaric Ambient-Regulated Velocity-Enhanced Thermal Flux Capacitor/Discharge Serpentine Grid Matrix Element.

[Sandaholic]

Originally Posted by 300D

An intercooler is a radiator, anything that dissipates heat from a fluid to the atmosphere is a radiator.

Please do some basic semantics research.


So does smoking crack, but that doesn't mean its a good for you or a smart thing to do....You're putting pre-compressor injection in the just as bad as crack category


Competition engines aren't driven hundreds of thousands of miles. So what? I Don't see how that is relevant at all. And to clarify I said "competition purposes". Many of us use our daily drivers to compete. While I don't think that's always the smartest thing to do it is fun so I and many others do it. I'm sure in your world it's akin to enslaving crackwh0res whilst selling half of their drug babies to research and the rest to cannibals.
Lets not forget that most competition engines don't even use an air filter, so the erosion difference between track dust/dirt and water is negligible to that specific and narrow application. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Every time a turbocharged vehicle drives through fog they are in essence utilizing mother nature to mimic pre-compressor injection (though I imagine the fine mist of fog works much better). Ever drive through a fog and think "man the rig seems peppy tonight!"?


In other words... you have nothing to say but "theories and BS." I do believe you just might be a fuktard. If you reread what I said I basically stated I have no opinion as to what compressor wear would look like if this was used at all times.

Just admit you're scared.

Originally Posted by OrangeNV

technically its a heat exchanger

but ive never tried it, so im not sure i should post in here

That comment came out slightly wrong I guess. Throw your theories around all you want. But theories won't/can't match experience. I have just a little with this topic, but the little I have is better than whatever someone may have gleaned from the interweb.

Since theories have been okay'd I'm thinkin' the reason PCI became a no no has to do with the setups on the gas motors that used vacuum to piss a stream of water at the wheel. Which is not the same as using pressure and a nozzle to create a fine spray.



Who here has destroyed a compressor wheel with PCI and under what circumstances?

[fenner408]

Originally Posted by Sandaholic

Who here has destroyed a compressor wheel with PCI and under what circumstances?

This is what I want to know. I want to hear from someone who has experience, not someone who is speculating from what they have heard.

[5.9 Cummins Fan]

As long as the water was atomized well I don't see why its a problem. A large droplet hitting the wheel would be bad, but I don't see a problem. The fog example was great man

[98andahalf]

I dont see how water could be any more damaging to the compressor wheel than gasoline. I have a 1980 Turbo Trans Am which is factory turbo'd and the carb actually sits on top/side of the turbo, where the air/fuel mixture (not even the remote amount of properly atomized) is sprayed down into the compressor wheel of the tb305 turbocharger, then into the intake. OEM application and there is no sign of compressor wheel damage after 100k miles......
Also, spraying water onto the compressor wheel artificially increases the range of the compressor map....

[Sandaholic]

Originally Posted by 300D

Just admit it, you're uneducated.


Gasoline also has only 2/3 the density of water.

I received outstanding marks in elementary school!

Have you ever personally tried pre-turbo injection? Where did you receive your great education on the subject? And I will take the change of subject as an affirmation of your chickenchitedness.

[98andahalf]

Originally Posted by 300D

Just admit it, you're uneducated.


Gasoline also has only 2/3 the density of water.

Ok. ....but this application ran gasoline through the turbo 100% of the time for 100k miles..... if the engine was running, the air/fuel mixture was being drawn through the compressor wheel into a 301 cubic inch V8 that could turn more than 6k....

[XLR8R]

PSA:

Don't argue with a fool - he'll drag you down to his level & beat you with experience.

[Kronic_187]

my fart contains methane.... so there fore... if i sh!t in a coffee can, seal it. and run an air tight hose from the cans lid to my air filter, it'll have the same effect as nos.... times 1000

[Sandaholic]

Originally Posted by Sandaholic

If you haven't tried precompressor injection then what do you have to add to the thread besides theories and BS. I have done it, it works. If used for competition purposes with proper atomization it will not erode a compressor wheel. I won't say daily use would be as benign. I have not tested it as I see no reason to use it day in and day out.

If you're scared to do it then don't.

Originally Posted by 300D

Have you? Based on "I have not tested it" thats a clear no and a contradiction to what you posted earlier, that makes you a clear liar.

I know, but Sandaholic is just one of those "fools" thats so fun to drag on so he can continue making a "fool" of himself.

I have 2 nozzles in my intake horn and 1 in front of the compressor wheel. When I'm at the track or on the dyno I open a valve that allows water to reach the pre-compressor nozzle. When I'm not competing or testing I leave the valve off. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

[98andahalf]

Spraying water onto the compressor wheel artificially increases the compressor wheel's surface area, allowing smaller chargers to have more efficiency. I have NEVER seen a pic of a compressor wheel damaged by PCI..... has anyone? Its a damn myth

[GOT-Torque]

Does this help the discussion at all?

[98andahalf]

dont see anything.....so.....nope?

[98andahalf]

Ok, I have found an instance where a pre-turbo alcohol injection supposedly damaged a compressor wheel. There was controversy over whether the water/alcohol pooled on an edge in the compressor housing or whether the pump remained on and streamed water out. Proper atomization/placement would not result in this

[98andahalf]

oh, and someone was saying that it could be a result of deposits and minerals in un-purified water. purified/mass produced windsheild washer fluid/boost juice would not have this effect

[Sandaholic]

Originally Posted by 300D

If you actually look, you might find what you're looking for.
pre-turbo compressor damage - Devilsown Methanol Alcohol Water Injection

The first guy said he injected more water than diesel.......5 gallons of water between 2 nozzles in 120 miles and poor nozzle placement. Yeah, wonder why it ate the wheel. The other guy possibly had a leaking check valve (stemming from the use of tap water) which would allow a non-pressurized stream of water to leak from the line into the compressor wheel. Seems both of the guys were injecting at fairly low boost levels as well. Also looks like their nozzles were too big for PCI.