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Drag Racing Where ALL Racers are Welcome- From ET Bracket, all the way to ProStreet and Top Diesel! |
01-16-2017, 09:27 AM
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#121
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazeeun
Just reusing what was there from the 2500-3000hp procharger setup, the discharge of the GT55 is only 3.5".
There is the theory that the larger diameter tubing will slow down the velocity of air as t passes thru the IC so it has longer to cool?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I was reading that mach .4-.5 is the ideal air velocity through an intercooler. There are some equations I came across online.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97rada
Has that theory ever been tested ?
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There has to be guys that have data after moving to larger diameter tubing.
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01-16-2017, 09:30 AM
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#122
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,454
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01-16-2017, 10:00 AM
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#123
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Name: 97rada
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlibert
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According to that 4 inch plus is a great idea for our engines.
__________________
Austin
tow truck- 14-3500 with tuning
toy truck -94 rclb auto- 5.2x with a lot left. Shooting for 4s
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex...it takes a touch of genius- and alot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
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01-16-2017, 10:23 AM
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#124
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Name: Krazeeun
Title: Hardway Performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,369
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So, here's a question for you guys, I'm running 4 nitrous kits on the car, not for the purposes of hosing its face off but more so for the purpose of spreading the love out with multiple small kits on simple digi-set timers because I hate progressive controllers and PWM solenoids.
One kit will be a tiny .030 or so that comes on with the trans brake button, after that I'll have a purge solenoid and two .125 solenoids to work with and turn on whenever i want after release of trans brake down the track using the digi-set timers.
My question to you is, where would you put the nozzles in the system? There are two very specific trains of thought here, one being that furthest away gives the most IC effect, the other being that closest to the engine gives the most bang for the buck. My initial thought is to put the spool-aid shot, the first small shot on the purge solenoid and one of the .125 on the charge pipe just inside the firewall on the compressor discharge side of the intercooler, then the other .125 solenoid which would be my "third, big kit" with the nozzle mounted on the other charge pipe just inside the firewall, between the IC and the engine.
Plan is to have the spool aid on whenever the trans brake is on, with the other three kits activated by digi-set timers, likely bringing the first small kit on right after the hit and before the 60' if the tires can take it, then the first .125 shortly after the 60' if the tires can take it then likely the "third big kit" right around the 330' likely right after the lockup clutch is applied and used as a MPH tool.
__________________
RYAN MILLIKEN
I WILL NOT KEEP CALM
I WILL RAISE HELL AND BREAK ****
'14 Ram SCSB Pro-Street "MiniWheat" - 5.299ET@136.49MPH/4515#
'66 Nova X275 4.289@170.8/3430#
'69 Nova X275 .... still on pro jacks
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
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01-16-2017, 11:07 AM
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#125
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Name: Krazeeun
Title: Hardway Performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,369
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According to my turbo guy, the charger i'm using rated at 170lbs/min equals to a rough translation of 2400cfm, according to that math up there the largest charge pipe they did the math on was 3" which ended up being 1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach... by his math 2400 cfm of air through a 4 inch pipe is 458 fps which is .406 mach same amount of air in a 5 inch pipe... and the speed drops to 293 fps... so it looks like 4" is barely suitable at max flow potential of the 88MM GTX.
__________________
RYAN MILLIKEN
I WILL NOT KEEP CALM
I WILL RAISE HELL AND BREAK ****
'14 Ram SCSB Pro-Street "MiniWheat" - 5.299ET@136.49MPH/4515#
'66 Nova X275 4.289@170.8/3430#
'69 Nova X275 .... still on pro jacks
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
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01-16-2017, 11:24 AM
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#126
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Name: Nootch
Title: nosprkreqrd
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ft. Mcmurray
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,359
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just throwing out some ideas. The further down the track you are, the more you are going to heat soak the whole system. Bigger boost numbers and more of it moving. If you are using it more for density control, you would want to start the first nozzle close to the intake runner, and each one will come on later and closer to the turbo compressor outlet. that would also add to the idea that if you are cooling the air, the more you put in the quicker, the longer it has a chance to mix and cool down.
__________________
Clever.Wise.Mechanic.
Spark plugs are for those who can't handle the pressure
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01-16-2017, 06:19 PM
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#127
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Name: Ryan Tucker
Title: Do it Dont talk about it.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 390
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As close as you can get to the intake valves
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01-16-2017, 08:40 PM
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#128
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,454
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01-16-2017, 09:35 PM
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#129
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlibert
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While their calculation of air speed may be correct I believe there are many other factors that determine CFM needed besides simply just HP.
This is from an engine test cell for a 15.8L engine at 600hp, its closer to 2:1 ratio of CFM/HP.
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01-16-2017, 10:01 PM
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#130
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Name: zfaylor
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: P-TOWN!, Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,024
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Horsepower is a calculated number. Horsepower is a calculated number. Horsepower is a calculated number.
Take equations and ratings with a grain of salt as they are typically aimed towards a gas engine.
For example: A turbocharger "rated" for 1000hp is very misleading. It may make 1000hp on a 2.0L engine. The same turbocharger wouldn't touch 1000hp on a 16L engine or a 6L engine.
Maybe this is obvious to some but it gets overlooked quite a bit on the interwebs...
__________________
2015 half ton heavy chevy
81 Fairmont LS project
Many yard ornament projects...
North American Turbo
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01-16-2017, 10:35 PM
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#131
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Name: rockjeep73
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,339
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I like your plan. We found that when we had an air/water on my brothers truck we could only bring so much nitrous on at once when the nozzles were close to the plenum. We had to move more of it close to the turbo in order to bring the nitrous in more aggressively. It would put the fire out otherwise. However once we got rid of the air/water that all changed.
__________________
SHSDiesel.com
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01-17-2017, 01:06 PM
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#132
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfaylor
Maybe this is obvious to some but it gets overlooked quite a bit on the interwebs...
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And will be overlooked for some time..... Unfortunately.
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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01-17-2017, 01:46 PM
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#133
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Name: RacinDuallie
Title: Black Sheep Racing
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Supporting Northeast Diesel Racing
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazeeun
So, here's a question for you guys, I'm running 4 nitrous kits on the car, not for the purposes of hosing its face off but more so for the purpose of spreading the love out with multiple small kits on simple digi-set timers because I hate progressive controllers and PWM solenoids.
One kit will be a tiny .030 or so that comes on with the trans brake button, after that I'll have a purge solenoid and two .125 solenoids to work with and turn on whenever i want after release of trans brake down the track using the digi-set timers.
My question to you is, where would you put the nozzles in the system? There are two very specific trains of thought here, one being that furthest away gives the most IC effect, the other being that closest to the engine gives the most bang for the buck. My initial thought is to put the spool-aid shot, the first small shot on the purge solenoid and one of the .125 on the charge pipe just inside the firewall on the compressor discharge side of the intercooler, then the other .125 solenoid which would be my "third, big kit" with the nozzle mounted on the other charge pipe just inside the firewall, between the IC and the engine.
Plan is to have the spool aid on whenever the trans brake is on, with the other three kits activated by digi-set timers, likely bringing the first small kit on right after the hit and before the 60' if the tires can take it, then the first .125 shortly after the 60' if the tires can take it then likely the "third big kit" right around the 330' likely right after the lockup clutch is applied and used as a MPH tool.
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First, awesome build as usual, but why the hatred on Progressive Controllers?
__________________
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01-20-2017, 01:19 PM
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#134
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacinDuallie
First, awesome build as usual, but why the hatred on Progressive Controllers?
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I always thought timers were more consistent.
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
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02-06-2017, 09:25 AM
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#135
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Name: Krazeeun
Title: Hardway Performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,369
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this ****er is almost ready to start... should be moving under its own power on Tuesday...
__________________
RYAN MILLIKEN
I WILL NOT KEEP CALM
I WILL RAISE HELL AND BREAK ****
'14 Ram SCSB Pro-Street "MiniWheat" - 5.299ET@136.49MPH/4515#
'66 Nova X275 4.289@170.8/3430#
'69 Nova X275 .... still on pro jacks
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
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02-06-2017, 09:51 AM
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#136
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Name: Phooker
Title: Gluten Free
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lake Charles, La
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 7,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazeeun
this ****er is almost ready to start... should be moving under its own power on Tuesday...
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Stop letting Branson sleep...it could have been running today.
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02-06-2017, 10:21 AM
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#137
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Name: AHall
Title: Hobbyist
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Slope, CO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazeeun
this ****er is almost ready to start... should be moving under its own power on Tuesday...
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Where did you end up putting the N2O nozzles? I'd recommend your spool aid on your intake manifold inlet. Put your big stages in the compressor discharge. Or compressor wheel inlet is even better, but more complex.
I wouldn't worry about IAT too much or piping size with having both nitrous and an a/w cooler. I'd also recommend the maximizer controller. If you're worried about sticky solenoids look into stainless nitrous outlet for this portion.
Last edited by AHall; 02-06-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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02-06-2017, 10:36 AM
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#138
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Name: Krazeeun
Title: Hardway Performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97rada
Has that theory ever been tested ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall
Where did you end up putting the N2O nozzles? I'd recommend your spool aid on your intake manifold inlet. Put your big stages in the compressor discharge. Or compressor wheel inlet is even better, but more complex.
I wouldn't worry about IAT too much or piping size with having both nitrous and an a/w cooler. I'd also recommend the maximizer controller. If you're worried about sticky solenoids look into stainless nitrous outlet for this portion.
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Haven't put them on yet but i'm planning on two solenoids PRE IC, the other two POST. I'm not using a nitrous controller, ever, for anything lol, I've got good solenoids from Inductions Solutions and all the support I could ask for from them, they're "local" to me as well so thats a benefit.
__________________
RYAN MILLIKEN
I WILL NOT KEEP CALM
I WILL RAISE HELL AND BREAK ****
'14 Ram SCSB Pro-Street "MiniWheat" - 5.299ET@136.49MPH/4515#
'66 Nova X275 4.289@170.8/3430#
'69 Nova X275 .... still on pro jacks
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
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02-06-2017, 10:47 AM
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#139
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Name: AHall
Title: Hobbyist
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Slope, CO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,603
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazeeun
Haven't put them on yet but i'm planning on two solenoids PRE IC, the other two POST. I'm not using a nitrous controller, ever, for anything lol, I've got good solenoids from Inductions Solutions and all the support I could ask for from them, they're "local" to me as well so thats a benefit.
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I wouldn't waste the cooling effect that n2o offers by putting the big stages too close to the valves. You'll probably be fine, but I'd reserve the direct port for a small dose of water to keep the pistons and turbine wheel happy just in case.
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02-06-2017, 01:23 PM
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#140
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Name: Got Smoke?
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gallatin,TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phooker
Stop letting Branson sleep...it could have been running today.
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The guy is a slave driver as it is Hooker! Even had guys in there working on it on Sunday!!!
__________________
Mark
2007 2500 Mega 68RFE FirePunk EFI/CSP5 & TCM tuning, Edge CTS II.
1997 2500 Jokerfab cyl head, PDR street cam, FDS benched pump, DFI 5x18's, HX35 63/67, FirePunk 47RE & anteater.
2003 Jetta TDI 5spd "DZL WGN" lot's of mods
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