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Old 01-12-2018, 06:57 PM   #1
Yotadzl

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P-Pump 24v Idle Surge

I've seen a little about this on here, but no real clear answers on how to solve this. I am working on a 99 24v with a p-pump swap. The components I am aware of (I only did part of the build) are as follows:
-180 pump with 7mm dv, 4k springs, hamilton v2 pump cam and springs
-DDP custom injectors (I don't recall exact flow specs, but around 52-56 lph I believe)
-Industrial Race twins (older with 66 Silver and 87 mm S4T)
-Built trans with Stock stall, maybe 2200 rpm?
-FASS 260 with TorkTek orifice overflow

The problem is it surges a little in neutral, but when dropped in gear it surges really badly. I've built similar pumps for 12 valves that did not have this issue. I've heard it may be injector related, but not exactly which way a person would go to help alleviate the issue. I have tried different idle springs and idle rpm settings to no avail. I also swapped from 191 to 7mm dv, which did not help the surge.

So has anyone been able to solve this issue? And be willing to share what they determined? I know some surging is normal with tight governor springs and built trans, but this is extreme.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:06 PM   #2
RonA
 
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Did you try backing off the gov springs 1 click to see if it helped?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #3
Yotadzl

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Ya, I even tried different idle springs. No help.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:48 PM   #4
DDually
 
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Is it like a lope?
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:50 PM   #5
Yotadzl

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Ya you could call it a lope
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:32 PM   #6
DDually
 
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Which size did you choose for your injection lines?
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:32 AM   #7
jasonc

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What is it timed At? I'd try playing with the timing a little. The One and only p24v I've been around needed alot of timing to run right.
 
Old 01-14-2018, 07:21 PM   #8
Yotadzl

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDually View Post
Which size did you choose for your injection lines?
I think they are the 084 lines. Thatís what crazy Carlís recommended at the time.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:23 PM   #9
Yotadzl

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What is it timed At? I'd try playing with the timing a little. The One and only p24v I've been around needed alot of timing to run right.
22 degrees per the recommendation of Lenny at dynomite, who did the injectors
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:00 AM   #10
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I have not seen a v2 cam idle smooth yet. Imo it needs more timing but I do not see that helping your current situation. May want to verify pop pressure.
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:04 PM   #11
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When I was playing with the p-pumped 24, I discovered how injector sensitive they were. Once I figured that out I found a place to get them made and stopped fighting it.
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:06 PM   #12
Yotadzl

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonA View Post
When I was playing with the p-pumped 24, I discovered how injector sensitive they were. Once I figured that out I found a place to get them made and stopped fighting it.
So where did you end up getting injectors?
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:09 PM   #13
Yotadzl

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes View Post
I have not seen a v2 cam idle smooth yet. Imo it needs more timing but I do not see that helping your current situation. May want to verify pop pressure.
I tried to keep timing conservative on this build because the customer thinks he wants to tow with it and was also having issues spooling the turbos
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotadzl View Post
I tried to keep timing conservative on this build because the customer thinks he wants to tow with it and was also having issues spooling the turbos
I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes View Post
I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
66 spools poorly, even with lots of fuel. Are you running 12V injector springs and pop off pressures on your injectors?
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
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66 spools poorly, even with lots of fuel. Are you running 12V injector springs and pop off pressures on your injectors?
Not with a 68mm turbine. They are whatever Weston build for the application. They seemed to make good power even with a 12mm pump. Good enough to hurt the engine.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:22 PM   #17
Yotadzl

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I believe they are 12 valve springs in the injectors.. They were built for a p pump application
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Last edited by Yotadzl; 01-17-2018 at 12:24 PM.
 
Old 01-17-2018, 12:23 PM   #18
Yotadzl

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes View Post
I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
I donít disagree, but sometimes you canít talk sense into people
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:51 PM   #19
RonA
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotadzl View Post
I believe they are 12 valve springs in the injectors.. They were built for a p pump application
Too bad you don't have access to a set of M6's or M7's. Set to pop at 290 it would be interesting to see if it helped the idle. I don't know if Exergy is still around to balance injectors. It's been a while.
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I have a similar turbo setup but with smaller turbine in the secondary. I would not ever dream of trying to tow with it.
yea good luck with that
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