Quick spooling compounds for 03-04 w/ NV5600 - Competition Diesel.Com

apexfd · 12-09-2019, 08:19 PM

Ive done lots of reading on compounds, as it pertains to sizing and power levels/goals. Ive got a pretty good idea what im looking for, but a little advice would be appreciated.

Im putting together bits and pieces for a quick spooling towing compound setup for my early 2004 5.9 with NV5600. I have BBi stage 0.5 on their way, I dont plan on running big power, just a efficient and smooth with as broad of a power band as possible.

Currently I have a HE351cw that I machined to accommodate the 76x64mm 10 blade turbine, a 60x86mm billet wheel and your run of the mill rebuild kit w/ gapless turbine seal. Ive been real happy with this turbo for the last 2 years. But I want more. Who doesnt.

I got a screaming deal on a brand new borg warner K31, its the version that is from a MAN engine. This one: Turbolader 53319707508 generalÃ¼berholt MAN D2876LF13 - VorrÃ¤tig âœ…

Its the primary that im set on using, and seems the sizing is perfect for what ill be doing:
-71x94mm forged milled 7+7 compressor
-86x75mm 11 blade turbine
-20cm wastegated T4 housing (About 1.0AR from what I gather).

I was planning on using my he351 as the secondary, but then I made the mistake of looking at what else was available...

I found this HE400wg. Looks like a he351 center cartridge with an hx40 turbine, but with a divided 13cm wastegated housing. This is the unit: He400wg |

I thought it was real interesting. I can think of a few benefits, what do you guys think?

From what the seller said, it has the 76x64mm turbine as well. And im pretty sure it would have the 60x86mm compressor that we all know.

I really like the idea of a divided turbine housing, at 13cm that should spool real close to what my 9cm undivided he351 does and without the restriction of the 9cm. Looks like the outlet is not as big as the he351 which would be great for when I weld up my hot pipe (3" nominal schedule 10 304 stainless elbow, 3.5" OD 3.25" ID). And I like how the wastegate isnt mounted to the compressor cover. One less thing to have to fab when you want to change things around. Looks like a promising unit I think.

Only issue is that im not sure what the wastegate looks like, probably would have to drill a hole between the scrolls just like what guys do with the hx35?

Should I give it a whirl?

Other questions:

Is there any benefit of using a 3.5" interstage pipe between the primary and secondary?

How about 3.5" piping all the way to the intake horn? I could modify the intercooler end tanks for 3.5" too. Its no big deal.

What about the silencer ring on the secondary, remove it or does it help?

Another idea I had was to weld thin inlet guide vanes just before the compressor of the secondary, to straighten out the air flow into the blades.

Anyways, those are the things that have been bouncing around in my head.

chevota84 · 12-09-2019, 09:13 PM

I think the k31 is going to be your bottleneck on the turbine side.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

apexfd · 12-10-2019, 07:16 AM

Well, its very comparable to the BD R700 kit. The turbine is a tad bigger, and the housing is wastegated as well.

I understand what your saying, but isnt that more of a concern if I was looking to make 600hp?

Im building this truck to be the best 400hp tow rig possible. I dont want my small turbo to have to work too hard all by itself, and I want as broad of a power band as possible.

mhuggler · 12-10-2019, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apexfd

Well, its very comparable to the BD R700 kit. The turbine is a tad bigger, and the housing is wastegated as well.

I understand what your saying, but isnt that more of a concern if I was looking to make 600hp?

Im building this truck to be the best 400hp tow rig possible. I dont want my small turbo to have to work too hard all by itself, and I want as broad of a power band as possible.

That he400 looks interesting, but if that's all the power you want to make while towing I would stick with the 9cm housing.

apexfd · 12-10-2019, 10:51 AM

Would you agree with the statement that a divided 13cm T3 housing would perform nearly the same as an undivided 9cm T3 housing? With the same turbine in each of course.

If yes, then I think the biggest pro with the 9cm would be the really good wastegate design that it has, more than anything else. The wastegate hole is prioritized, angled towards the flow and can be easily made as large as needed. Cons: starts causing restriction above 20psi in the drive pressure tests that ive done, even with the bigger turbine. Also, the he351 outlet flange doesnt seal very good, and must be reduced quite a bit for the 3" nominal hotpipe.

The 13cm housing on the other hand, doesnt have nearly as good of a wastegate design. Right angles and im assuming only one scroll is probably wastegated. But the turbine outlet size looks better to work with and *IF* the spool is near identical, then the same restrictions might not be there. Some work could be done to help out the wastegate situation im sure, just have to get out the die grinder.

Just some ideas.

Tate · 12-10-2019, 03:01 PM

From my experience with the wastegate on my HE351 triples, once the gate opens up, the secondary falls flat on its face and the primaries take all the load and becomes hot and smokey. Even when it was opening at 40-50 psi. For a more of a toy/work truck where you're tuning by the seat of the pants, I wouldn't get to worried about the wastegates. I run mine all locked out. Runs cleaner, cooler with more boost. No ideas on drive pressures, but I'm happy with how it drives.

12-09-2019, 08:19 PM	#1
apexfd Name: apexfd Title: Rookie Status: Not Here Join Date: Jun 2013 Member`s Gallery Posts: 7	Quick spooling compounds for 03-04 w/ NV5600 Ive done lots of reading on compounds, as it pertains to sizing and power levels/goals. Ive got a pretty good idea what im looking for, but a little advice would be appreciated. Im putting together bits and pieces for a quick spooling towing compound setup for my early 2004 5.9 with NV5600. I have BBi stage 0.5 on their way, I dont plan on running big power, just a efficient and smooth with as broad of a power band as possible. Currently I have a HE351cw that I machined to accommodate the 76x64mm 10 blade turbine, a 60x86mm billet wheel and your run of the mill rebuild kit w/ gapless turbine seal. Ive been real happy with this turbo for the last 2 years. But I want more. Who doesnt. I got a screaming deal on a brand new borg warner K31, its the version that is from a MAN engine. This one: Turbolader 53319707508 generalÃ¼berholt MAN D2876LF13 - VorrÃ¤tig âœ… Its the primary that im set on using, and seems the sizing is perfect for what ill be doing: -71x94mm forged milled 7+7 compressor -86x75mm 11 blade turbine -20cm wastegated T4 housing (About 1.0AR from what I gather). I was planning on using my he351 as the secondary, but then I made the mistake of looking at what else was available... I found this HE400wg. Looks like a he351 center cartridge with an hx40 turbine, but with a divided 13cm wastegated housing. This is the unit: He400wg \| I thought it was real interesting. I can think of a few benefits, what do you guys think? From what the seller said, it has the 76x64mm turbine as well. And im pretty sure it would have the 60x86mm compressor that we all know. I really like the idea of a divided turbine housing, at 13cm that should spool real close to what my 9cm undivided he351 does and without the restriction of the 9cm. Looks like the outlet is not as big as the he351 which would be great for when I weld up my hot pipe (3" nominal schedule 10 304 stainless elbow, 3.5" OD 3.25" ID). And I like how the wastegate isnt mounted to the compressor cover. One less thing to have to fab when you want to change things around. Looks like a promising unit I think. Only issue is that im not sure what the wastegate looks like, probably would have to drill a hole between the scrolls just like what guys do with the hx35? Should I give it a whirl? Other questions: Is there any benefit of using a 3.5" interstage pipe between the primary and secondary? How about 3.5" piping all the way to the intake horn? I could modify the intercooler end tanks for 3.5" too. Its no big deal. What about the silencer ring on the secondary, remove it or does it help? Another idea I had was to weld thin inlet guide vanes just before the compressor of the secondary, to straighten out the air flow into the blades. Anyways, those are the things that have been bouncing around in my head. Last edited by apexfd; 12-09-2019 at 08:28 PM.

12-09-2019, 09:13 PM	#2
chevota84 Name: chevota84 Title: Too Much Time Status: Not Here Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prineville, OR Member`s Gallery Posts: 4,926	I think the k31 is going to be your bottleneck on the turbine side. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk __________________ 99 Dodge 2500 with stuff

12-10-2019, 03:01 PM	#6
Tate Name: Tate Title: What? Status: Not Here Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Airdrie, Alberta Member`s Gallery Posts: 3,419	From my experience with the wastegate on my HE351 triples, once the gate opens up, the secondary falls flat on its face and the primaries take all the load and becomes hot and smokey. Even when it was opening at 40-50 psi. For a more of a toy/work truck where you're tuning by the seat of the pants, I wouldn't get to worried about the wastegates. I run mine all locked out. Runs cleaner, cooler with more boost. No ideas on drive pressures, but I'm happy with how it drives. __________________ '98 3500 2wd, 24v, 5 spd, p-pumped '98 2500 4wd, 12v, 6 spd, VP'd '02 VW Jetta, 5 spd. My p-pump conversion pics

12-10-2019, 07:16 AM	#3
apexfd Name: apexfd Title: Rookie Status: Not Here Join Date: Jun 2013 Member`s Gallery Posts: 7	Well, its very comparable to the BD R700 kit. The turbine is a tad bigger, and the housing is wastegated as well. I understand what your saying, but isnt that more of a concern if I was looking to make 600hp? Im building this truck to be the best 400hp tow rig possible. I dont want my small turbo to have to work too hard all by itself, and I want as broad of a power band as possible.

12-10-2019, 10:51 AM	#5
apexfd Name: apexfd Title: Rookie Status: Not Here Join Date: Jun 2013 Member`s Gallery Posts: 7	Would you agree with the statement that a divided 13cm T3 housing would perform nearly the same as an undivided 9cm T3 housing? With the same turbine in each of course. If yes, then I think the biggest pro with the 9cm would be the really good wastegate design that it has, more than anything else. The wastegate hole is prioritized, angled towards the flow and can be easily made as large as needed. Cons: starts causing restriction above 20psi in the drive pressure tests that ive done, even with the bigger turbine. Also, the he351 outlet flange doesnt seal very good, and must be reduced quite a bit for the 3" nominal hotpipe. The 13cm housing on the other hand, doesnt have nearly as good of a wastegate design. Right angles and im assuming only one scroll is probably wastegated. But the turbine outlet size looks better to work with and IF the spool is near identical, then the same restrictions might not be there. Some work could be done to help out the wastegate situation im sure, just have to get out the die grinder. Just some ideas.