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jponder

jponder

RESIDENT MAD SCIENTIST
When i was a kid i was confused by all this stuff. I want to tell yall a story bear with me, it might get long

When i was a kid I started loosing my teeth and my parents would tell me look you put this tooth under your pillow and the tooth fairy will bring you a dollar. Well I wanted a dollar but i didnt like the Idea that there is this fairy in my room, i told them look why cant i put the tooth outside and the fairy will get it and leave me a dollar outside. they said oh no he comes in your room and puts it under your pillow. i did not like it, i checked all the windows in the house, and i made sure all doors where locked. i thought there is no way in hell this fairy can get in here, But sure enough next morning I had a dollar under my pillow. i scratched my head and wondered how in the hell did this fairy get in my room

I BELIEVED IT! WHY? because people I trusted told me it was so.

then they told me this rabbit was going to hop in my room and leave me an Easter Basket. Well i made sure all the windows were locked, I checked the doors before i went to sleep and they were all locked. i thought there is no way in hell a Rabbit can get in this house, Next morning I got this basket, and i am like dam how in the hell did this rabbit get in my room

I BELIEVED IT! WHY? because people I trusted told me it was so.

Look these people were lying to me because I opened my moms trunk up one day and saw the easter baskets so I knew these dam adults are lying to me, there aint a dam tooth fairy and there aint an easter bunny.

Then they told me there was this guy that lived at the north pole who wore this red outfit and he had reindeer that could fly. He brought me presents I asked my parents how the hell is this guy getting in the house, He comes down the Chimney, we aint got a chimney i say, well he comes through the walls like the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny. I was confused by it. it didnt make sense to me. All these dam things coming through the walls, My room was like the interstate with all these magical beings. i didnt like it. Why dont they leave the stuff outside and i will get it when i wake up. i thought that I needed some kind of Force field like in Star trek where all these beings
couldnt get in the house

I BELIEVED IT! WHY? because people I trusted told me it was so.

Okay so you probably can see where this is headed, one day i realized there wasnt a santa Clause and one day i stared at the stars and thought let me see if i got this right, there is this god that flys in a chariot and can snap his fingers and make stars, make planets. i thought BS there aint nothing out there like that. So that is the order of me loosing my childhood dreams

Tooth fairy: Not real
Easter Bunny: Not real
Santa Clause: Not real
God: Not real

Have any of yall thought this way?

Now look before yall rip me, when i was young the two ladies that taught me at first baptist kindergarten came to my house and said do you believe in God, i said yes, Do You believe that Jesus is the son of God, I said Yes, i told them look i believe in god, jesus and Santa Clause but i do not believe in the easter Bunny or the tooth fairy. They said fine we understand. I was still hanging on to god, jesus and santa Clause. They made me repent and accept jesus and i was baptized a couple of days later. They were Evonne Vinings and MRS Houeye

Now my question is, My name went in the Book of life that day, i wasnt faking nothing I truly believed then, So thats means when i stand at judgement day and they open the book of life i am in it right? What i do after that dont matter right?

I sincerely dont believe in god. i just cant see it man. i am glad that I covered my ass and was baptized though because you never know. I will never talk about this with my kids or grandkids, because i want them to believe. Hell i am going to lie to my grandkids about the tooth fairy and easter bunny and all that garbage
 
Believe, confess your Lord and Savior, admit sins and be emersed is how I see it. If you truly believed when emersed I believe you are in book, however you need to turn away from sins and live as the Lord would look favorable upon. No one is perfect and no one said you have to be, just do as the Bible says and when wrong admit and ask for forgiveness! Just my 2 cents!
 
chromedome1 said:
Believe, confess your Lord and Savior, admit sins and be emersed is how I see it. If you truly believed when emersed I believe you are in book, however you need to turn away from sins and live as the Lord would look favorable upon. No one is perfect and no one said you have to be, just do as the Bible says and when wrong admit and ask for forgiveness! Just my 2 cents!
Click to expand...

I believed when i was young, I repented, i was baptized. My dad used to have these religious tracts made by Chick publications, i used to walk around and hand them out.; My Grandmother used to sit me down and talk to me. I told her i would read the bible, i read revelation first and talked to her about it

She told me to read Matthew next but i didnt like Matthew, after reading revelation it was boring, i read EZEKIEL instead, i liked the fire and brimstone of the old testament.

I was in my dads law office the other day and his secretary was talking on the Phone about the rapture and i am telling my daughter all this stuff about the rapture. i say look two are in the field and one is taken. My dads sec is having a conversation on the phone and i am talking to my daughter. Finally Ellen hangs up the Phone and i say look ellen, even if you arent taken in the first coming satan will rule the earth and you can still go to heaven you just cant take the mark of the beast. She responds that is right but you will be beheaded.

I dont tell her i dont believe in God, she would have a nervous breakdown, i would have to bring her to the hospital.

I am not 100% sure on this. i am like 99.997% sure. Once i came home from LSU and i couldnt find my dad and i couldnt find Ellen, i then called Donna Bohm who i knew was a christian and i couldnt get her on the phone. i thought this is Dam peculiar. I hope the rapture didnt hit because if it did i am in a world of trouble. i got to go through tribulation now. let me say this now, i talk alot of BS on the internet but i am not talking BS now, because i know Blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin.

to question gods existence is not Blasphemy. A man can search for truth he can question Gods existence. he cant ridicule god and i am sorry if that appears what i did. i do not ridicule god i just got lots of questions.

Only 10-5% of People in The USA dont believe in god. its hard to get an exact number because the polls can ask it in a slightly different way and the results change dramatically. Most of those people are highly educated, you do have highly educated people who believe in GOD though.

Do you know who Descartes is?
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/philosophers/descartes-god.html
He proved gods existence in this way
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/philosophers/descartes-god.html

I'd have liked to have hung out with that guy.

here is one thing that scrambles my mind and why i cant say there is no god 100%. if i am like i believe, purely organic, and have no soul and there is no god then that means all the words i just typed to you came from chemical reactions in my brain, basically everything i just typed came from the violent world of thermodynamics, How can logic come from thermodynamics?

i think i need to reread Revelation and Ezekiel, i might need to read Matthew, my Grandmother told me to read it but i didnt.
 
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Your quote.I sincerely dont believe in god. i just cant see it man. i am glad that I covered my ass and was baptized . you just took a bath.Your name is in no book of God unless he opens the "i sincerly dont believe" book.If you go back in time you will find no santa.easter bunny etc.However you will find that Jesus did walk this earth.In fact most religions dont have a problem with Jesus walking the earth.So we can put that puppy to bed.Now they do debate who we was.Why he was here.It is like this to you, God or no God = your problem.God knows your heart.He knows what you really think.We dont.
 
duallyspeed said:
Your quote.I sincerely dont believe in god. i just cant see it man. i am glad that I covered my ass and was baptized . you just took a bath.Your name is in no book of God unless he opens the "i sincerly dont believe" book.If you go back in time you will find no santa.easter bunny etc.However you will find that Jesus did walk this earth.In fact most religions dont have a problem with Jesus walking the earth.So we can put that puppy to bed.Now they do debate who we was.Why he was here.It is like this to you, God or no God = your problem.God knows your heart.He knows what you really think.We dont.
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Oh i believe there was a guy named jesus that walked the earth, I just dont know if there is a God, david koresh told his followers at Waco that he was a prophet of God. They all died with him, he was actually sleeping with all the mens wives. i wouldnt have went along with that, i'd have got out of there and left that wife

i just question things
 
jponder said:
Oh i believe there was a guy named jesus that walked the earth, I just dont know if there is a God, david koresh told his followers at Waco that he was a prophet of God. They all died with him, he was actually sleeping with all the mens wives. i wouldnt have went along with that, i'd have got out of there and left that wife

i just question things
Click to expand...

David Koresh wore glasses.God dont need glasses.That should of been the first red flag:hehe:
 
Ohnestly i dont think there aint no way "your ass is covered" if you dont beleive now. I read a verse in the bible once where God sais somthing to the affect of If you forsake Me in front of man, i will forsake you in eternaty,,,, i know that aint the exact verse or the exact wording but it does say to the affect of if you here is one verse i can think of Judges 10:13
But you have forsaken me and served other gods, so I will no longer save you.
 
jaybuller said:
Ohnestly i dont think there aint no way "your ass is covered" if you dont beleive now. I read a verse in the bible once where God sais somthing to the affect of If you forsake Me in front of man, i will forsake you in eternaty,,,, i know that aint the exact verse or the exact wording but it does say to the affect of if you here is one verse i can think of Judges 10:13
But you have forsaken me and served other gods, so I will no longer save you.
Click to expand...

I think you are probably right. I jumped a line in a cave once and it was silted out, I got skeered, i got back on the line but you couldnt see, i closed my eyes and came out that cave on the line and i negotiated with God all the way out, Cave divers call it seeing the Robes of jesus when you get skeered in a Cave. i wasnt much of a cave diver, i guess i wasnt much of a Christian either.

I am going to buy a bible and read it again and see if I can get it this time
 
Dude...

What you have is a clear case of applying logic and critical thinking to the world around you.

And what you see in most of the responses are people that fail to make the connection on the fact that the examples you gave about santa so on and so forth are NO different than your questions about God and all the rest.

There WAS a Santa.... St Nicholas to be exact. He DID give the children presents... No doubt about it. What he didn't do was circle the earth in one night, magically shimmy down chimneys and just KNOW who was naughty and who was nice.

I'm sure the other stories are based on similar grounds as well. As is all religion I would have to assume, as a logical person. It's always based in reality. It just tends to skew from it as that's BASIC human nature. Find a guy that DID catch a big fish last Saturday and by now (wed) that fish is at least 4 inches longer...

BASIC human behavior.


I have often tossed out the story of Santa Claus as a near perfect cookie-cutter model of those without worldly understanding (children) being tricked into something, while with good intent, and then having the rug pulled out from under them.

Imagine however, that you never grew up... and you always had "parents" to keep the dream alive....

You could always believe in Santa. And as long as everyone's believing, it's easy to do so, and actually a pretty tough road to think anything else.



We have a thinker here. Mr Ponder, you have a functional brain. You will NOT be told that "this" is how it works when "this" makes no freakin sense.

I say bravo.



Now whether or not it would be beneficial for everyone to take this approach is something I think about sometimes. For instance, while it may sound cold and arrogant, the FACT is..... most people are not going to lead good lives if left to their own moral scale. Most people NEED an exhaustive list of "do's" and "don'ts" to live their lives by as they lack the ability to morally and ethically reason through situations to find the best solution. Or to form their own morality independent of any norms or pre-existing conceptions, but instead based in pure logic.

Also, you mentioned feeling strange thinking about logic stemming from a thermodynamic or chemical process. Well, logic is basically just If....Then.....And.....Or......True.... False.... so on and so forth. This is no more complex than diodes and transistors in terms of electronics. Or check valves and pilot operated valves in terms of fluid dynamics, so on and so forth.

Basic logic can and is found in everything. That same logic defines the operation of the very computer I'm typing this message on right this second.

The beauty is, the real stuff..... stuff like logic and such.... is NOT up to interpretation. It is what it is. It works. It always works, and our universe IS governed by these concepts. Things like logic and math don't need long explanations for when they contradict themselves. They don't ever tell you that you were just "thinking about it wrong" when they don't make a lick of sense. You either understand it, or you don't. But there's no middle ground for "interpretation". It just is. And that has it's own beauty that I find most attractive.

It's REAL.

It's hard to describe, but I guess if I were to make an attempt, I would say that some other things in this world, like most religion, the easter bunny, Santa clause and the like, require a certain amount of "Fluff". The "fudge-factor" if you will. In order to "go along" with some things it is required of you that you allow for the fact that all the pieces aren't going to actually line up if you laid them all out on a table. And furthermore..... if/when you start down this path you will be met with stiff resistance from your peers in the way of "you're thinking about this wrong" or the most common..... "you just have to believe".....

If the pieces don't line up, they don't line up. Me being okay with that doesn't make them line up. In my world, 2.000000 + 2.000000 = 4.00000.

When someone tries to tell me that 1.234324 + .001233543 = 4.00000 I'm not going to be able to "just believe" it.

I can try. But I can't do it.

It appears we're cursed with a similar affliction.



Now I'm not of the mindset that "there is no God" or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that while there may very well be, or have been a figure of that magnitide, the story we have passed down to one another about that figure... as HUMANS prone to ERROR and EXADURATION seems to be rather tall as far as tales go.

Anyone ever watched the original StartGate movie? There's a perfectly logical scenario as to how a figure described to us could have existed. And far less tall of a tale to be completely honest.


Ponder, you're a madman. Crazy-talk.

You remind me of that guy that wouldn't shut up about the solar system and all that when everybody knows the earth is the center of the universe, and that it's flat. What was his name, I can never remember...... ahhh.... Galileo I do believe.

I think we all see how that one turned out. It's nothing knew. Been going on since we've been an actively communal species. Only differences through the eons are the names of the God(s) and what they did/what they do and what you're supposed to do to be a good citizen in the community.

No sense in stirring anything up. Best thing you could acheive is a brick thrown through you window with the words "Burn In Hell" written on it....

:hehe:
 
WOW, man i am now skeered of two people on CompD Charles and You. Thats big medicine. I'm getting the hell out of here, You are playing with fire man
 
jponder said:
WOW, man i am now skeered of two people on CompD Charles and You. Thats big medicine. I'm getting the hell out of here, You are playing with fire man
Click to expand...


Playing with fire???

You said that you don't believe in all that nonsense, so where's the fire?

I'm no Atheist. I am however bound to exercise rational thought to the best of my ability though. Which in so doing, I'm forever excluded from the "you just have to believe" following, by the very definition of the word rational itself.


I got the feeling right off that you may be trolling. So were those your thoughts in the beginning of this thread, or nothing more than a shiny lure fashioned for the sole purpose of hooking rational thinking people who might see the rare virtues of clear thought and rational thinking glimmering in the distance?
 
Charles said:
Dude...

What you have is a clear case of applying logic and critical thinking to the world around you.

And what you see in most of the responses are people that fail to make the connection on the fact that the examples you gave about santa so on and so forth are NO different than your questions about God and all the rest.

There WAS a Santa.... St Nicholas to be exact. He DID give the children presents... No doubt about it. What he didn't do was circle the earth in one night, magically shimmy down chimneys and just KNOW who was naughty and who was nice.

I'm sure the other stories are based on similar grounds as well. As is all religion I would have to assume, as a logical person. It's always based in reality. It just tends to skew from it as that's BASIC human nature. Find a guy that DID catch a big fish last Saturday and by now (wed) that fish is at least 4 inches longer...

BASIC human behavior.


I have often tossed out the story of Santa Claus as a near perfect cookie-cutter model of those without worldly understanding (children) being tricked into something, while with good intent, and then having the rug pulled out from under them.

Imagine however, that you never grew up... and you always had "parents" to keep the dream alive....

You could always believe in Santa. And as long as everyone's believing, it's easy to do so, and actually a pretty tough road to think anything else.



We have a thinker here. Mr Ponder, you have a functional brain. You will NOT be told that "this" is how it works when "this" makes no freakin sense.

I say bravo.



Now whether or not it would be beneficial for everyone to take this approach is something I think about sometimes. For instance, while it may sound cold and arrogant, the FACT is..... most people are not going to lead good lives if left to their own moral scale. Most people NEED an exhaustive list of "do's" and "don'ts" to live their lives by as they lack the ability to morally and ethically reason through situations to find the best solution. Or to form their own morality independent of any norms or pre-existing conceptions, but instead based in pure logic.

Also, you mentioned feeling strange thinking about logic stemming from a thermodynamic or chemical process. Well, logic is basically just If....Then.....And.....Or......True.... False.... so on and so forth. This is no more complex than diodes and transistors in terms of electronics. Or check valves and pilot operated valves in terms of fluid dynamics, so on and so forth.

Basic logic can and is found in everything. That same logic defines the operation of the very computer I'm typing this message on right this second.

The beauty is, the real stuff..... stuff like logic and such.... is NOT up to interpretation. It is what it is. It works. It always works, and our universe IS governed by these concepts. Things like logic and math don't need long explanations for when they contradict themselves. They don't ever tell you that you were just "thinking about it wrong" when they don't make a lick of sense. You either understand it, or you don't. But there's no middle ground for "interpretation". It just is. And that has it's own beauty that I find most attractive.

It's REAL.

It's hard to describe, but I guess if I were to make an attempt, I would say that some other things in this world, like most religion, the easter bunny, Santa clause and the like, require a certain amount of "Fluff". The "fudge-factor" if you will. In order to "go along" with some things it is required of you that you allow for the fact that all the pieces aren't going to actually line up if you laid them all out on a table. And furthermore..... if/when you start down this path you will be met with stiff resistance from your peers in the way of "you're thinking about this wrong" or the most common..... "you just have to believe".....

If the pieces don't line up, they don't line up. Me being okay with that doesn't make them line up. In my world, 2.000000 + 2.000000 = 4.00000.

When someone tries to tell me that 1.234324 + .001233543 = 4.00000 I'm not going to be able to "just believe" it.

I can try. But I can't do it.

It appears we're cursed with a similar affliction.



Now I'm not of the mindset that "there is no God" or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that while there may very well be, or have been a figure of that magnitide, the story we have passed down to one another about that figure... as HUMANS prone to ERROR and EXADURATION seems to be rather tall as far as tales go.

Anyone ever watched the original StartGate movie? There's a perfectly logical scenario as to how a figure described to us could have existed. And far less tall of a tale to be completely honest.


Ponder, you're a madman. Crazy-talk.

You remind me of that guy that wouldn't shut up about the solar system and all that when everybody knows the earth is the center of the universe, and that it's flat. What was his name, I can never remember...... ahhh.... Galileo I do believe.

I think we all see how that one turned out. It's nothing knew. Been going on since we've been an actively communal species. Only differences through the eons are the names of the God(s) and what they did/what they do and what you're supposed to do to be a good citizen in the community.

No sense in stirring anything up. Best thing you could acheive is a brick thrown through you window with the words "Burn In Hell" written on it....

:hehe:
Click to expand...

Copernicus dreamed up the earth wasnt at the center of the Universe, IIRC gallileo made the first refractor telescope. Johannes Kepler did the laws of planetary motion from Brache data in 1605 Newton proved them mathematically almost 100 years later. i dont have time to google it but that is my recollection.

i stand and stare at jupiter and wonder how in the hell did those guys do it? Those planets are moving in lines to me, R2, how could they see that and change it to R3? You and i wouldnt have had this conversation in 1400's not in a public forum we would be on poles on FIRE. Witches we would be.

Jeez reading your stuff makes me realize i need to take more English classes where I can get my point across in a non Barbaric way. I feel like a cave man reading your stuff. I read too much Conan and John carter of mars when i was little. i read the world book encyclopedias when i was 10. i started at A and read till i hit Z. My Grand parents thought i was a prodigy but i wasnt i just liked reading, i searched for truth in the world. i was like Forest gump and i just felt like running.

thanks Charles you got some good stuff, i hope i get to meet you one day. I need weekly counseling sessions. my brain is all scrambled up like scrambled eggs
 
Charles said:
Playing with fire???

You said that you don't believe in all that nonsense, so where's the fire?

I'm no Atheist. I am however bound to exercise rational thought to the best of my ability though. Which in so doing, I'm forever excluded from the "you just have to believe" following, by the very definition of the word rational itself.


I got the feeling right off that you may be trolling. So were those your thoughts in the beginning of this thread, or nothing more than a shiny lure fashioned for the sole purpose of hooking rational thinking people who might see the rare virtues of clear thought and rational thinking glimmering in the distance?
Click to expand...

No i am not trolling Charles. it is just a big question to me and while i am serious i have a habit of making jokes. its just my nature. I mean could there be a more serious question out there? i appreciate your response
 
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