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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
05-25-2009, 03:05 PM
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#1
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Name: kino_fab
Title: KTPA Tech Official
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Glasgow, Ky
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Posts: 2,244
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Help tuning a 13mm 12V.
Posting this for fireman450. We took his truck to a local pull saturday night and from what we can see the truck is way over fueled. Specs are 13mm II Dragon FLow pump, 5x.018 10 hole dual feed injectors, custom cam (no idea what the specs are), S465 turbo with a .9 A/R exh housing, ATS manifold. Here is a video of the pull. His is the red flatbed 2wd at 00:40. YouTube - kottpa Scottsville 09 diesel truck pull I know he didn't leave the line hard enough, but at the end of the night he mad a second pass leaving at about 4500 and it still fell on its face. EGTs we only up to 1400* so that tells me its getting may too much fuel and putting the fire out.
From what we have seen and been told, the pump has a #5 plate slid all the way back, and the pump is bench timed at 38* (so we are told). Anyone know what we can do to one of these pumps to back the fuel off more to keep from putting the fire out and get more HP out of it. Thanks.
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04.5 3500 daily driver/ex-sled puller - On the operating table
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05-25-2009, 03:38 PM
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#2
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Name: Timebomb
Title: Bootney Lee Fonsworth
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I think a 12mm would be better suited for a S465 but thats me. Other then sliding the plate back Im not sure, I doubt changing the rack cap back to stock would help either as the plate being positioned back would more then likley limit it from getting 21mm of rack travel. Smaller injector and or DV's would hurt the pump over time.
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95 12v 4x4 Ex Cab Auto
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05-25-2009, 04:39 PM
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#3
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Name: kino_fab
Title: KTPA Tech Official
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I was thinking the same thing. We thought about using a stock plate to limit the rack taravel even more, but I don't know how it will effect the other aspects of the pump.
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04.5 3500 daily driver/ex-sled puller - On the operating table
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05-25-2009, 05:04 PM
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#4
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Name: B18B1LS1
Title: Too Much Time
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Location: L-ville, Ga
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Are they 5x.018 or 10x.018 injectors, I'm confused?
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'97 2500 ECLB 4x4 -- couple of turbos mixed with some random billet stuff and still slow
'03 2500 QCLB 4x4 -- work truck
'98 Camaro Z28 -- s475 and 10.50@130 so far...
'92 Wrangler -- lifted locked and stretched
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05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
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#5
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Name: GRotman
Title: Chief Indian
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check the timing. I would back it down to 30*
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05-25-2009, 05:20 PM
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#6
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Name: kino_fab
Title: KTPA Tech Official
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They are called 5x.018's. it has the original 5 stock size holes, plus 5 more bigger holes making them a 10 hole injector.
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04.5 3500 daily driver/ex-sled puller - On the operating table
Tech Official for:
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05-25-2009, 05:28 PM
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#7
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Name: GRotman
Title: Chief Indian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kino_fab
They are called 5x.018's. it has the original 5 stock size holes, plus 5 more bigger holes making them a 10 hole injector.
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regular 5x18 or 5x16 would be a better match also.
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05-25-2009, 05:29 PM
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#8
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Name: B18B1LS1
Title: Too Much Time
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Location: L-ville, Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kino_fab
They are called 5x.018's. it has the original 5 stock size holes, plus 5 more bigger holes making them a 10 hole injector.
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Gotcha, sounds like a serious injector!
__________________
'97 2500 ECLB 4x4 -- couple of turbos mixed with some random billet stuff and still slow
'03 2500 QCLB 4x4 -- work truck
'98 Camaro Z28 -- s475 and 10.50@130 so far...
'92 Wrangler -- lifted locked and stretched
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05-25-2009, 05:33 PM
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#9
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Name: Fireman450
Title: Daring to be diffrent!!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton , KY
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Posts: 1,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kino_fab
Posting this for fireman450. We took his truck to a local pull saturday night and from what we can see the truck is way over fueled. Specs are 13mm II Dragon FLow pump, 5x.018 10 hole dual feed injectors, custom cam (no idea what the specs are), S465 turbo with a .9 A/R exh housing, ATS manifold. Here is a video of the pull. His is the red flatbed 2wd at 00:40. YouTube - kottpa Scottsville 09 diesel truck pull I know he didn't leave the line hard enough, but at the end of the night he mad a second pass leaving at about 4200 and it still fell on its face. EGTs we only up to 1400* so that tells me its getting may too much fuel and putting the fire out.
From what we have seen and been told, the pump has a #5 plate slid all the way back, and the pump is bench timed at 28* (so we are told). Anyone know what we can do to one of these pumps to back the fuel off more to keep from putting the fire out and get more HP out of it. Thanks.
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Kinda fixed it a little for ya bragg. Still gonna make a few more passes this weekend. I just really need to squeeze as many RPMs as I can out of her and see what happens.
Im just not much on fine tuning these pumps.... Somethin I need to learn.
Lynn
__________________
Lynn Chapman
Driver: 04.5 CR
Play Toy:1994 Dodge 12V, SMOKE SHOWIN! 2WD Pulling Team. vs. 3.0 in progress. Thanks to Northeast Diesel, MUMAU DIESEL , PullTech Chassis & Fab, Cooper High Performance, SKPP, Joe Gibbs Racing/Driven Racing Oils and all my friends and family!
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05-25-2009, 05:35 PM
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#10
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Name: kino_fab
Title: KTPA Tech Official
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We are afraid to go with a smaller injector and risk damaging the pump. The pump is supposed to be set at around 600+ CC's right now. A friend of ours went through 2 or 3 pumps almost back to back and it turned out the injectors we not what he was told and were way to small causing alot of stress inside the pump.
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04.5 3500 daily driver/ex-sled puller - On the operating table
Tech Official for:
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05-25-2009, 05:36 PM
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#11
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Name: kino_fab
Title: KTPA Tech Official
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Location: Glasgow, Ky
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I thought you told me it was bench timed at 38*.
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04.5 3500 daily driver/ex-sled puller - On the operating table
Tech Official for:
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05-25-2009, 05:38 PM
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#12
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Name: Fireman450
Title: Daring to be diffrent!!
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Location: Edmonton , KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kino_fab
I thought you told me it was bench timed at 38*.
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Nope..lol I tell ya what... If I wasnt so scared of it a little would benifit.... about a 50 shot or so....
Lynn
PS
Bragg did the swelling ever go down????
__________________
Lynn Chapman
Driver: 04.5 CR
Play Toy:1994 Dodge 12V, SMOKE SHOWIN! 2WD Pulling Team. vs. 3.0 in progress. Thanks to Northeast Diesel, MUMAU DIESEL , PullTech Chassis & Fab, Cooper High Performance, SKPP, Joe Gibbs Racing/Driven Racing Oils and all my friends and family!
Last edited by Fireman450; 05-25-2009 at 05:45 PM.
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05-25-2009, 05:45 PM
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#13
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Name: Jim Fulmer
Title: Too Much Time
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Quote:
A friend of ours went through 2 or 3 pumps almost back to back and it turned out the injectors we not what he was told and were way to small causing alot of stress inside the pump.
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Which in-turn beat the crap out of the cam and rollers inside the pump.....sound like I have been through this before huh!
I see and hear a few thing that are not right, there is too much pump or injector, my guess is injector if they are bigger than a 5x18, way too much fuel on the bottom (like it has no AFC) you can hear this in the motor as it never breaks free. 13mm's are not any harder to tune than a 12!
Jim
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01' 12V, S/B, Q/C, 4WD
98' 12V, S/B, Q/C, 2WD
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05-25-2009, 05:54 PM
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#14
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Name: kino_fab
Title: KTPA Tech Official
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Location: Glasgow, Ky
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yeah a little sleep and my head is back to normal. I'm still pretty excited though winning the first points pull of the season lol.
Anyways back on topic, what injectors would you guys recommend that would cut the fuel down and still not hurt the pump?
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04.5 3500 daily driver/ex-sled puller - On the operating table
Tech Official for:
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05-25-2009, 06:52 PM
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#15
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Name: GRotman
Title: Chief Indian
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Location: Allendale,Mi
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5x.018s will not hurt the pump.
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05-25-2009, 10:16 PM
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#16
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
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Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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I run 5x.017's in a CDS pump, that CDS said was capable of nearly 1000CC.
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2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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05-25-2009, 10:52 PM
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#17
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Name: gotta12v
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fayette MO
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some 5x.018 32* timing on the light and set fuel to 500cc and youll be a lot closer
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05-26-2009, 01:43 PM
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#18
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Name: Fireman450
Title: Daring to be diffrent!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
They are 10x0.016" normally, perfect candidate to be sold to someone else who wants nothing but smoke.
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That explains alot. But you can look at the injector tip and tell that half of the holes are a diffeent size. But If a regular 5x18 will work ill see if I can track down a set.
Lynn
__________________
Lynn Chapman
Driver: 04.5 CR
Play Toy:1994 Dodge 12V, SMOKE SHOWIN! 2WD Pulling Team. vs. 3.0 in progress. Thanks to Northeast Diesel, MUMAU DIESEL , PullTech Chassis & Fab, Cooper High Performance, SKPP, Joe Gibbs Racing/Driven Racing Oils and all my friends and family!
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05-26-2009, 02:07 PM
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#19
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Name: DTanklage
Title: Banned
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the total cross sectional area of a 5x18 is .001272
a 5x9 is .000315
if ya add the two its .001587
a 10x16 is .002010 (25% larger than what you already have)
just for reference
going to std 5x18 is only gonna knock the fueling down but about 20%
do you think taking 20% away is gonna keep it lit all the way thru?
i think the person that suggested cutting down the pump output has been there before
i have not
bet you have have one bad azz truck once you get it sorted out tho!
good luck with it
don
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05-26-2009, 02:17 PM
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#20
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Name: Fireman450
Title: Daring to be diffrent!!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton , KY
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Posts: 1,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTanklage
the total cross sectional area of a 5x18 is .001272
a 5x9 is .000315
if ya add the two its .001587
a 10x16 is .002010 (25% larger than what you already have)
just for reference
going to std 5x18 is only gonna knock the fueling down but about 20%
do you think taking 20% away is gonna keep it lit all the way thru?
i think the person that suggested cutting down the pump output has been there before
i have not
bet you have have one bad azz truck once you get it sorted out tho!
good luck with it
don
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Thanks Don
My biggest problem for that pull is that my RPM was WAY to low. I have figured out that I am going to have to come out wfo to help keep everything spinning.( Now that I know this new set up will still dead hook) My pump does have a 5k spring abut I havent touched it yet.
What can I go to get as many RPM outta my pump as I can?
Thanks
Lynn
__________________
Lynn Chapman
Driver: 04.5 CR
Play Toy:1994 Dodge 12V, SMOKE SHOWIN! 2WD Pulling Team. vs. 3.0 in progress. Thanks to Northeast Diesel, MUMAU DIESEL , PullTech Chassis & Fab, Cooper High Performance, SKPP, Joe Gibbs Racing/Driven Racing Oils and all my friends and family!
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