Start From Scratch Engine Build - Advice/Opinions?

1972RedNeck

1972RedNeck

New member
After quite some time of looking on and off, I found and purchased a cheap 2006 F350 4X4 with a 6.0 and ZF6. Now it is time to start piecing together an engine build.

What I have to work with:

1 12V block
1 24V block (post 53 block)
1 low hour 12V head
1 80K mile 24V head (on a broken 53 block)
3 5.9 cranks
5 12V rods
12 24v rods
VE pump gearcase and injector lines
P pump gearcase and injector lines
Air compressor to go in place of vacuum pump

I will need:

Head studs
Pump
Injectors
Cam & Lifters
Pistons
Gasket set

My goal is to achieve maximum fuel economy, street-ability, tow-ability, and low end torque with a byproduct of 400 or so HP.

I would like the compression ratio to end up between 18:1 to 19:1 but if 20:1 was doable, that would be perfect. This should help low end torque tremendously and should be better for fuel economy and provide a slight reduction in EGT's while towing, correct?

A set of 18.5:1 12V pistons and some light block surfacing should get me to an easy 19:1, provided they have the top ring insert to handle added compression pressures from turbocharging (which I think they do).

On the other hand, some block work and a set of 24V pistons can get to 18:1.

Which setup will be better for low end and fuel economy? The higher compression 12V or the slightly lower compression 24V? I know the 18:1 24V will be easier to make HP numbers, but that isn't my main concern...

Then for the camshaft - I have installed a few Colt stage 2 and 3 cams and have been happy with them. Stick with Colt or move to the Hamilton camp? Which cam from either suppler?

Then for the pump selection - I am leaning towards the old VE since it takes up less room, knocks out good mileage numbers (not that the P Pump doesn't), may make better low end torque, and will be easier on the wallet. That, and it should make 400 HP with ease.

Turbo will probably be an S362SXE.

Thoughts on what I am trying to put together? Remember, max power is not the end goal - fuel economy and drive-ability is...
 
If I were going for fuel economy in a solid daily driver, I’d look at the VE stuff well before a p7100. every mild VE pumped truck I’ve been around has been way nicer than the in-line.
I’m not well versed in the compression so I won’t comment on that.
 
I'd just buy a good running ve engine complete take out and o-ring the head with valve springs and call it done for the power your looking for. Save a pile of money and get the same results.
 
jasonc said:
I'd just buy a good running ve engine complete take out and o-ring the head with valve springs and call it done for the power your looking for. Save a pile of money and get the same results.
Click to expand...

I don't think you need O-rings to make 400 HP - studs will hold no problem, won't they? I'm thinking 40 PSI out of the S362 will be enough for 375 - 400...

I would like to utilize the parts I have to build a max efficiency engine - not sure how spending ~ $2000 on a VE pumped engine that will still need a complete gasket set, machine work to deck the head, possible pump rebuild, and a camshaft will save a pile of money - basically the only thing I would be paying $2000 for over what I have would be the core pump and the pistons - pistons that I don't necessarily even want...

So back to the original questions - any other input?
 
I would think a 362sxe is more expensive than a K27 which is a stock drop in, and has a max Rwhp rating of 450 at a price tag of 1000.00
 
1972RedNeck said:
I don't think you need O-rings to make 400 HP - studs will hold no problem, won't they? I'm thinking 40 PSI out of the S362 will be enough for 375 - 400...

I would like to utilize the parts I have to build a max efficiency engine - not sure how spending ~ $2000 on a VE pumped engine that will still need a complete gasket set, machine work to deck the head, possible pump rebuild, and a camshaft will save a pile of money - basically the only thing I would be paying $2000 for over what I have would be the core pump and the pistons - pistons that I don't necessarily even want...

So back to the original questions - any other input?
Click to expand...

No o rings are necessary but the cost to o ring the head and basic upgrade valve springs is around $600 in my area, stock headbolts work just fine. Throw a pan gasket and crank seals. A stock ve motor with even 200k on it, the cylinders will still have perfect cross hatch. Do the basic ve pump upgrades, I hate saying mods, and a small turbo and your there.
 
Imo you will want orings and studs for the amount of compression you plan on running. Cylinder pressures are going to be through the roof with a rotary pump and small turbo.

Out of both of my trucks I much prefer the 24v head. Less smoke and better response. This is comparing both trucks with inline pumps.
 
Justappumped24v said:
I would think a 362sxe is more expensive than a K27 which is a stock drop in, and has a max Rwhp rating of 450 at a price tag of 1000.00
Click to expand...

Hmm, a K27 is a stock drop in in a 2006 F350 with a Cummins? How can anything related to a conversion be a "stock drop in"?

While a K27 is less money than an S362SXE, it is a lot more money than an HE351CW and I don't think the K27 is worth the $800 more than the HE351. In my mind, with a VE, if you need more than an HE351, the next step is an S362.

The reason I think the S362 would be better is that it would run lower boost at cruising speeds, which should have a positive effect on fuel mileage.
 
Last edited:
jlbayes said:
Imo you will want orings and studs for the amount of compression you plan on running. Cylinder pressures are going to be through the roof with a rotary pump and small turbo.

Out of both of my trucks I much prefer the 24v head. Less smoke and better response. This is comparing both trucks with inline pumps.
Click to expand...

Less smoke and better response sounds like a win win to me. Both of your trucks are setup similar outside of the heads?

If I end up going with the 24V setup, compression will only be in the 18:1 range - only .5 higher than stock. I'm thinking studs will get the job done.

If I run a 12V setup I will be in the 19:1 range and then you're probably right that o-rings would be advantageous in the long run.

So which is better for low end power and mileage, all else being equal?

24V with 18:1 compression ratio?

Or 12V with 19:1 compression ratio?
 
jasonc said:
No o rings are necessary but the cost to o ring the head and basic upgrade valve springs is around $600 in my area, stock headbolts work just fine. Throw a pan gasket and crank seals. A stock ve motor with even 200k on it, the cylinders will still have perfect cross hatch. Do the basic ve pump upgrades, I hate saying mods, and a small turbo and your there.
Click to expand...

I'm not just looking for a 400 HP number - if I was, I would just build a mild 454 Big Block Chevy and be done with it.

400HP is the least of my worries. I want peak efficiency...

So no, a stock engine with basic upgrades will not get me "there".
 
Last edited:
1972RedNeck said:
Less smoke and better response sounds like a win win to me. Both of your trucks are setup similar outside of the heads?

If I end up going with the 24V setup, compression will only be in the 18:1 range - only .5 higher than stock. I'm thinking studs will get the job done.

If I run a 12V setup I will be in the 19:1 range and then you're probably right that o-rings would be advantageous in the long run.

So which is better for low end power and mileage, all else being equal?

24V with 18:1 compression ratio?

Or 12V with 19:1 compression ratio?
Click to expand...

No, wildly different injector and turbo setups. The 24v still drove cleaner with micro blind sac wide cone angle injectors with 26* of timing than the 12v with factory 215 injectors and less timing. Both had 180 pumps.

Imo you will not notice the difference in the point of compression between the two. How agressive you are with the timing would be the key between them.
 
sootie said:
If you know so much, stop asking questions. You argue with almost everything suggested...
Click to expand...

Almost everything - the question I am looking for answers for is this:

Which is better for low end power and mileage, all else being equal?

24V with 18:1 compression ratio?

Or 12V with 19:1 compression ratio?
 
jlbayes said:
No, wildly different injector and turbo setups. The 24v still drove cleaner with micro blind sac wide cone angle injectors with 26* of timing than the 12v with factory 215 injectors and less timing. Both had 180 pumps.

Imo you will not notice the difference in the point of compression between the two. How agressive you are with the timing would be the key between them.
Click to expand...

Is a 24V or 12V more tolerant of higher timing numbers?
 
1972RedNeck said:
I'm not just looking for a 400 HP number - if I was, I would just build a mild 454 Big Block Chevy and be done with it.

400HP is the least of my worries. I want peak efficiency...

So no, a stock engine with basic upgrades will not get me "there".
Click to expand...

Well sorry for the confusion, just going off what you said you were looking for in your first post for 400hp.

I'd do a deckplate 6.4 with a 13mm pump and a 88mm single charger then, ha.
 
1972RedNeck said:
......


My goal is to achieve maximum fuel economy, street-ability, tow-ability, and low end torque with a byproduct of 400 or so HP.

......

Thoughts on what I am trying to put together? Remember, max power is not the end goal - fuel economy and drive-ability is...
Click to expand...


Excuse us for reading....


1972RedNeck said:
Is a 24V or 12V more tolerant of higher timing numbers?
Click to expand...

What does the number of valves have to do with timing?

Chris
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top