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Sled Pulling From Street to Pro-Mod, get your Sled Pulling fix here! |
08-15-2017, 05:53 PM
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#1
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Name: Duramaxfan03
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Posts: 42
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Suspension blocks and pinion angle
So far this season I have been running 2" blocks in my truck and I want to take them out to lower the back down to stock. My question is, is my blocks are tapered 1/4" from end to end making the rear end point more towards the ground making the pinion angle, if I take them out should a run a wedge to keep that angle or don't worry about it? Idk what kind of pinion angles you guys are running or what not so I'm a little curious.
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S&B CAI, MBRP intercooler tubes, PPE manifolds and up-pipes, profab turbo horn, MBRP downpipe, 5" straight exhaust, 10mm cp3, Fass 150 lift pump, 60% over injectors, studs, Custom traction bars, G2 tie rods, kryptonite center link, built trans & T-case
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08-15-2017, 08:08 PM
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#2
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
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Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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Less angle on ujoints is more good!
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2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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08-15-2017, 09:02 PM
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#3
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Name: Duramaxfan03
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Posts: 42
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So if I would take the block completely off and my rear end would point more towards the trans would be best?
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S&B CAI, MBRP intercooler tubes, PPE manifolds and up-pipes, profab turbo horn, MBRP downpipe, 5" straight exhaust, 10mm cp3, Fass 150 lift pump, 60% over injectors, studs, Custom traction bars, G2 tie rods, kryptonite center link, built trans & T-case
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08-15-2017, 10:26 PM
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#4
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Name: 1stgensleeper
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Modesto, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duramaxfan03
So if I would take the block completely off and my rear end would point more towards the trans would be best?
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Yes, but pinion angle rises as power is transferred through the driveline. That's why you want to start with a slightly negative angle and not pointed directly at the trans, ideally when you are putting all the power down it'll then climb up and be at a perfect angle and be more efficient at transferring power.
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2006 QCLB 4x4 manual vb 47re, Savage Fab He351, exergy 100% overs, flo pro 5" exhaust
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08-16-2017, 08:45 AM
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#5
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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Posts: 23,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stgensleeper
Yes, but pinion angle rises as power is transferred through the driveline. That's why you want to start with a slightly negative angle and not pointed directly at the trans, ideally when you are putting all the power down it'll then climb up and be at a perfect angle and be more efficient at transferring power.
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Of course a good set of traction bars will help eliminate this.
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2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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08-16-2017, 09:38 AM
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#6
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken
Less angle on u-joints is more good!
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Just wanted to clear some things up. Less angle isn't 'more good' exactly. These are phased, u-jointed driveshafts, so they basically move forward and backwards over and over (it's kinda amazing the bearings in the u-joints and seals in the t-case last as long as they do!). If you don't match the angle of the t-case, you toss a TON of vibration and harshness into everything. It'll also pulse your output to your axle which isn't good for traction or axle shafts, or tire life for that matter.
Check out this picture:
Ideally you want more than 2deg of angle (to keep the bearings/caps spinning and supplying grease), and less than 4deg of angle (to keep wear down in the bearings/caps).
On a double cardan setup, like in the front driveshaft, you want to match the driveshaft angle with that 2-4deg angle in mind (close to the 2deg if you can).
All that said, just measure your t-case angle, and then make some shims to match it on the pinion and you're good to go!
This is cool too:
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
Last edited by CorneliusRox; 08-16-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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08-16-2017, 09:50 AM
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#7
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Name: Duramaxfan03
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Posts: 42
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Yea I made a set of bars that I have been running this year that are 2" OD and 1/2" wall and 6' long. So those are not allowing a ton of movement
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S&B CAI, MBRP intercooler tubes, PPE manifolds and up-pipes, profab turbo horn, MBRP downpipe, 5" straight exhaust, 10mm cp3, Fass 150 lift pump, 60% over injectors, studs, Custom traction bars, G2 tie rods, kryptonite center link, built trans & T-case
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08-16-2017, 10:44 AM
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#8
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duramaxfan03
So if I would take the block completely off and my rear end would point more towards the trans would be best?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stgensleeper
Yes, but pinion angle rises as power is transferred through the driveline. That's why you want to start with a slightly negative angle and not pointed directly at the trans, ideally when you are putting all the power down it'll then climb up and be at a perfect angle and be more efficient at transferring power.
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Not true. Please read my post :-)
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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08-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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#9
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Name: Duramaxfan03
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Posts: 42
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On your last post you said to check the angle of the t case and have your pinion angle match, but then you said I should have a 2-4 degree difference. Should the pinion match the t case or no?
__________________
S&B CAI, MBRP intercooler tubes, PPE manifolds and up-pipes, profab turbo horn, MBRP downpipe, 5" straight exhaust, 10mm cp3, Fass 150 lift pump, 60% over injectors, studs, Custom traction bars, G2 tie rods, kryptonite center link, built trans & T-case
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08-16-2017, 02:02 PM
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#10
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duramaxfan03
On your last post you said to check the angle of the t case and have your pinion angle match, but then you said I should have a 2-4 degree difference. Should the pinion match the t case or no?
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So your 2-4 degrees can come from lateral change too (left to right). I added the 2-4 deg statement mostly because it sounds like your ladder bars hold it pretty fixed. Typically you'd aim for perfectly in line and the rocking of the pinion angle would be enough to lubricate the bearings in the u-joints.
In theory, you'll get the best performance going down the track and driving if it's completely parallel.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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08-17-2017, 05:42 AM
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#11
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Name: Duramaxfan03
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Posts: 42
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Ok thanks for all the help guys!
__________________
S&B CAI, MBRP intercooler tubes, PPE manifolds and up-pipes, profab turbo horn, MBRP downpipe, 5" straight exhaust, 10mm cp3, Fass 150 lift pump, 60% over injectors, studs, Custom traction bars, G2 tie rods, kryptonite center link, built trans & T-case
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08-17-2017, 11:02 AM
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#12
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Name: IdahoRob
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,337
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I run about 2 degrees down on pinion compared to the angle of the tranny/TC to the drive shaft. Even with ladder bars, the rear will twist up, especially with a diesels torque. You may have to go even more down angle if it is not hooking. Might want to stick a gopro under there and watch the rear axle, then you'll have an idea of what is happening on your setup.
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