Air ride front end kenworth

[bracker8040]

Originally Posted by Rig Wrench

I got a real mutt here in the shop. Wester Star with air ride steer. Leveling valve is on the passenger side. Truck sits about 1-2 inches higher o the drivers side though. This look right the correct setup for this? Any ideas to get it level?

Is the truck a LoMax?

That’s a Hendrickson SteerTEK. Not terribly uncommon on them.

I’d be curious to know which load rating and how much drop that particular axle has.

[Ram12vcummins]

Ya I think that’s the Hendrickson setup. I would add leveller on both sides.

I have read the 4 bag system from kenworth helps better with bounce and bump steer.

I did some measurements of a junkyard ag130 today. Axle was on the ground and no motor so not sure of proper ride height. Kw couldn’t find it with truck vin either for some reason.

I’ll post measurements later.

[jfaulkner]

Originally Posted by Rig Wrench

I got a real mutt here in the shop. Wester Star with air ride steer. Leveling valve is on the passenger side. Truck sits about 1-2 inches higher o the drivers side though. This look right the correct setup for this? Any ideas to get it level?

You ever weigh each steer tire individually? You would be surprised how much different they can be truck to truck. I bet you will rarely find one that sits perfectly level. Buddies 359 was like 1000-1500# heavier on drivers side. Cat B pump/air compressor/steering box. Add a good set of compounds on passenger side levels the weight out until you add a 400# driver and snacks.

[Ram12vcummins]

Have some measurements



The ag130 I measured wasn’t aired up. It also had no engine. It was at a wrecker.

It was 12” from bottom of frame to top of axle. Leveller valve looked like it would roughly lift suspension another 2” until it was where I thought it should stop.
So guessing 14” from frame to axle where springs sit.i tried getting ride height from kw but they couldn’t tell me it.

My truck measured 15” in this spot. The ag130 truck measured 6” from bottom of frame to center of pin at the front. Mine measured 7.5”. So I would guess I should be 15.5” from frame to springs and my rear mount should be 1.5” lower than it is now for it to work.

The front spring pin to the center axle is 5/8” further back than my axle. So it would push my axle back. My springs were 36.75
Out to out and the ag130 is 38”.

I forgot to measure frame width. If I’m missing something please tell me. I’ll call wrecker tomorrow and try get more measurements if needed. I think it will work as long as I find proper rear mount and exact ride height measurements. Maybe I can shorten the rear mount 1/2” so it won’t raise my truck as much. Or maybe a lower axle is better. I have 4” drop now. I don’t know if there is anyway to keep the axle from moving back 5/8” as well.

I might buy the suspension to see what I can do. The mounts on the truck won’t work.

It’s a t700.... never heard of one until now. Last 6 are 948851 imcase anyone else can dig up ride height measurements.

I guess I could maybe go there and try air it up lol


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[bracker8040]

Originally Posted by Ram12vcummins

Have some measurements



The ag130 I measured wasn’t aired up. It also had no engine. It was at a wrecker.

It was 12” from bottom of frame to top of axle. Leveller valve looked like it would roughly lift suspension another 2” until it was where I thought it should stop.
So guessing 14” from frame to axle where springs sit.i tried getting ride height from kw but they couldn’t tell me it.

My truck measured 15” in this spot. The ag130 truck measured 6” from bottom of frame to center of pin at the front. Mine measured 7.5”. So I would guess I should be 15.5” from frame to springs and my rear mount should be 1.5” lower than it is now for it to work.

The front spring pin to the center axle is 5/8” further back than my axle. So it would push my axle back. My springs were 36.75
Out to out and the ag130 is 38”.

I forgot to measure frame width. If I’m missing something please tell me. I’ll call wrecker tomorrow and try get more measurements if needed. I think it will work as long as I find proper rear mount and exact ride height measurements. Maybe I can shorten the rear mount 1/2” so it won’t raise my truck as much. Or maybe a lower axle is better. I have 4” drop now. I don’t know if there is anyway to keep the axle from moving back 5/8” as well.

I might buy the suspension to see what I can do. The mounts on the truck won’t work.

It’s a t700.... never heard of one until now. Last 6 are 948851 imcase anyone else can dig up ride height measurements.

I guess I could maybe go there and try air it up lol


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I’m still trying to get some measurements off an AG130 that is in a running driving truck for you.

If there was no engine in the truck you got the measurements from, your frame to axle measurement will be significantly less than 14” when you set the weight of the truck with the engine and everything down on it.

I don’t have an answer off the top of my head how to move the axle forward 5/8”.

Your rear mount location will be relatively easy to get once you get to that point. You need to put an angle finder on the rear of the current knuckle and see how many degrees you currently have. Save that number.
Get the new axle in place, with the front spring bolt in, ubolts snugged to the axle, air bags in place, etc. Leave the rear mount loose, put your angle finder back on the knuckle, and block between the rear spring eye and the frame so that you can set the truck on its wheels without the rear of the spring mounted to the frame. Play with the height of your blocking until your angle matches your current axle. When it does, swing your rear mount into position, mark it, drill it, bolt it.

[Ram12vcummins]

Originally Posted by bracker8040

I’m still trying to get some measurements off an AG130 that is in a running driving truck for you.



If there was no engine in the truck you got the measurements from, your frame to axle measurement will be significantly less than 14” when you set the weight of the truck with the engine and everything down on it.



I don’t have an answer off the top of my head how to move the axle forward 5/8”.



Your rear mount location will be relatively easy to get once you get to that point. You need to put an angle finder on the rear of the current knuckle and see how many degrees you currently have. Save that number.

Get the new axle in place, with the front spring bolt in, ubolts snugged to the axle, air bags in place, etc. Leave the rear mount loose, put your angle finder back on the knuckle, and block between the rear spring eye and the frame so that you can set the truck on its wheels without the rear of the spring mounted to the frame. Play with the height of your blocking until your angle matches your current axle. When it does, swing your rear mount into position, mark it, drill it, bolt it.

I’m not gonna get the entire axle off the wrecker because if the springs are 38” out to out then they would be too wide for my frame mount correct?

My plan for the rear mount was just measure the sdistance from front mount to rear mount, c/c, and match that. That should be ok if both front and rear mounts are 1.5” lower.

The back shackle angle would be what it would be then right?

So I measured 12” and just a guess by looking at the leveller it needs to raise 2” for the leveller to be satisfied. Wouldn’t it be pretty close to that even with an engine in it? I would really like to get kw to tell me the ride height.

Also I forgot to look to see how the back shackles angled or if they are straight. Mine angle in to keep the spring in line. But maybe the wreck frame rails are wider. I’m not sure.

I can ask for some measurements from the wrecker. But don’t wanna get too complicated. The wrecker is about 1.5 hrs away so if I’m gonna go there again I might as well buy it and bring it home.

[allan5oh]

Hey just a thought I've had really good luck with Schaeffers 238 grease. The first time I did my front springs it felt like a totally different truck. I jacked up the front and greased the springs until fresh grease came out both sides. It took a lot of grease the first time to get that lower quality stuff out. With it being colder out maybe #1 would work?

The other thing that really seemed to help is having the front steer axle centered. Measure from the back of the axle to center of grease nipple at the front, hopefully the nipple is straight out. I had to redo mine and the handling improvement was quite a lot but it also seemed to ride better.

[allan5oh]

Actually I think the 274 is better in winter than 238. Not sure. I do remember one being too thick for winter even though they're both #2.

[bracker8040]

Originally Posted by Ram12vcummins

I’m not gonna get the entire axle off the wrecker because if the springs are 38” out to out then they would be too wide for my frame mount correct?

My plan for the rear mount was just measure the sdistance from front mount to rear mount, c/c, and match that. That should be ok if both front and rear mounts are 1.5” lower.

The back shackle angle would be what it would be then right?

So I measured 12” and just a guess by looking at the leveller it needs to raise 2” for the leveller to be satisfied. Wouldn’t it be pretty close to that even with an engine in it? I would really like to get kw to tell me the ride height.

Also I forgot to look to see how the back shackles angled or if they are straight. Mine angle in to keep the spring in line. But maybe the wreck frame rails are wider. I’m not sure.

I can ask for some measurements from the wrecker. But don’t wanna get too complicated. The wrecker is about 1.5 hrs away so if I’m gonna go there again I might as well buy it and bring it home.

If you buy it, buy the whole thing, axle and all. There’s the possibility that you could swap the front mount that ties the frame horns together, and run that axle. But regardless, you’re going to be much better off grabbing the complete front frame clip. Grab EVERYTHING. It’s a whole lot easier to throw stuff away later, than to wish you had it, and try to find it somewhere else.

Here’s something to keep in mind on the ride height. It’s not going to ride more than a few inches off the bumpstop. Was it sitting on the bumpstop when you looked at it, or was it up off the bumpstop?

[Ram12vcummins]

Originally Posted by bracker8040

If you buy it, buy the whole thing, axle and all. There’s the possibility that you could swap the front mount that ties the frame horns together, and run that axle. But regardless, you’re going to be much better off grabbing the complete front frame clip. Grab EVERYTHING. It’s a whole lot easier to throw stuff away later, than to wish you had it, and try to find it somewhere else.



Here’s something to keep in mind on the ride height. It’s not going to ride more than a few inches off the bumpstop. Was it sitting on the bumpstop when you looked at it, or was it up off the bumpstop?

I did buy it. Only picked up the springs, bags, bag mounts, leveller, and shock mounts.

The front horns wouldn’t work on my truck and the rear mounts were no good either.

I took some bolt hole measurements for the bags and shock mounts. And pin to pin along the frame from front mount to Center of rear mount.

I can post measurements tomorrow.

I did take an air compressor with me and made a fitting and filled the bags through the leveller valve. And it brought the suspension up to 13.75” from frame to spring perch. I left it sit for 30 mins while I removed some bolts and it was the same height then as well.

I think I will need to make new top bag mounts being my springs are narrower Center to center so the bags move in which will tip the bags. 1/2” each side I think. So I’ll get some steel made up and make new top mounts.

These pins and bushings don’t look to have any flat edges to spin in like on my truck. I’m assuming I can press them out and replace with what my truck has?

[Ram12vcummins]

Drilling the perch is to keep my axle where it is located now. The new springs have the centering pin 5/8” back. (I’ll confirm the measurement tomorrow). So to avoid my axle being moved back, I thought if I drill the perch 5/8” back it would keep my axle in the right spot and not sacrifice the spring structure. My issue with filling the hole was maybe being too close to the other one and slowly making its way into it.
I thought a plug wild at least fill the void and hopefully stop that.

I’ll have to look at the top back and ubolt bracket and see how it centre’s itself or if it’s just a loose fit hole over the nut. I’d assume that’s what it is. I should be able to make it larger to slide the 5/8” as well. I don’t think it needs to hold onto the centering pin.

I wasn’t gonna well the pin in. Didn’t even think of that. Would it matter or harm the axle if I did?

[bracker8040]

Originally Posted by Ram12vcummins

I did buy it. Only picked up the springs, bags, bag mounts, leveller, and shock mounts.

The front horns wouldn’t work on my truck and the rear mounts were no good either.

I took some bolt hole measurements for the bags and shock mounts. And pin to pin along the frame from front mount to Center of rear mount.

I can post measurements tomorrow.

I did take an air compressor with me and made a fitting and filled the bags through the leveller valve. And it brought the suspension up to 13.75” from frame to spring perch. I left it sit for 30 mins while I removed some bolts and it was the same height then as well.

I think I will need to make new top bag mounts being my springs are narrower Center to center so the bags move in which will tip the bags. 1/2” each side I think. So I’ll get some steel made up and make new top mounts.

These pins and bushings don’t look to have any flat edges to spin in like on my truck. I’m assuming I can press them out and replace with what my truck has?

Originally Posted by Ram12vcummins

Drilling the perch is to keep my axle where it is located now. The new springs have the centering pin 5/8” back. (I’ll confirm the measurement tomorrow). So to avoid my axle being moved back, I thought if I drill the perch 5/8” back it would keep my axle in the right spot and not sacrifice the spring structure. My issue with filling the hole was maybe being too close to the other one and slowly making its way into it.
I thought a plug wild at least fill the void and hopefully stop that.

I’ll have to look at the top back and ubolt bracket and see how it centre’s itself or if it’s just a loose fit hole over the nut. I’d assume that’s what it is. I should be able to make it larger to slide the 5/8” as well. I don’t think it needs to hold onto the centering pin.

I wasn’t gonna well the pin in. Didn’t even think of that. Would it matter or harm the axle if I did?

Sounds like you’re getting it figured out.

As you know, the spring pin keeps the pack together, but the only function of the hole in the perch on the axle is to line the axle and spring pack up. When the ubolts are torqued down there is no load on that pin so I really don’t think it’s necessary to fill the old hole, or weld the pin to the axle.

On my Classic the upper ubolt plate/bumpstop is aluminum, and mostly hollow so it’s easy to move to wherever it needs to be. Hopefully yours is similar.

Refresh my memory, but are you planning to lower it some, or just looking for a better ride?

Make sure you take plenty of before, during, and after pictures and post em up here!

On a slightly related topic, I came across a 2005 Freightliner Columbia in a junkyard yesterday that had the Hendrickson RideTEK air ride front axle. It almost tempted me, but the RideTEK has the goofy, upside down rear shackle and doesn’t look like it’d work to lower mine any lower so I didn’t spend much time measuring on it.

[Ram12vcummins]

Originally Posted by bracker8040

Sounds like you’re getting it figured out.

As you know, the spring pin keeps the pack together, but the only function of the hole in the perch on the axle is to line the axle and spring pack up. When the ubolts are torqued down there is no load on that pin so I really don’t think it’s necessary to fill the old hole, or weld the pin to the axle.

On my Classic the upper ubolt plate/bumpstop is aluminum, and mostly hollow so it’s easy to move to wherever it needs to be. Hopefully yours is similar.

Refresh my memory, but are you planning to lower it some, or just looking for a better ride?

Make sure you take plenty of before, during, and after pictures and post em up here!

On a slightly related topic, I came across a 2005 Freightliner Columbia in a junkyard yesterday that had the Hendrickson RideTEK air ride front axle. It almost tempted me, but the RideTEK has the goofy, upside down rear shackle and doesn’t look like it’d work to lower mine any lower so I didn’t spend much time measuring on it.

I think I’m getting it lol. These pins and bushings in the ag130 don’t twist. Haven’t tried to push one out yet. Seem different than the ones on my truck that are threaded. Maybe these ones are fine to leave in. But the front will have to pressed out because my truck isn’t a half clamp like this other was.

I wasn’t sure what kind of pressure would be on that pin other than just centering it until the ubolts are torqued down. If that’s the case, which makes sense because a small pin like that would shear with a massive amount of pressure I’d guess, then ya I prob don’t even need to plug the hole.

I don’t want my truck any lower no. Just want a better ride. We do go off road and down rough gravel lots so if I was any lower I’d be taking out the bumper.

If I’ve measured correctly it will lift my truck 1/4-1/2”. So I was contemplating letting the spring sag down that much and moving the top back bracket up the 1/2” so the bags maintain the proper air pressure. Other option is replace the front axle but at that little bit I don’t believe it’s necessary. I wish kw would be able to answer me what the ride height is. I’ve called 3 dealers and talked t parts and service and no answer yet.

The back shackles on my truck are 4” Center to Center and the truck I pulled the suspension off was 5”. But my offset on the shackle is 1/2” or 5/8”. And the others are 1/8” roughly. So I’ll have to use mine. Which means the rear hanger will need to be an extra 1” lower than the 1.5” lower I need to match the front pin.

So I think I’ll measure down 1” on my shackles as my truck sits now and see how much further back that 1” is compared to the pin and add that amount to the front mount to rear mount measurement I took off the truck. That will help maintain proper angle. I imagine it’ll only be 1/4” anyway. Prob a non issue.

Stengel bro’s has the long mount that was mentioned, but it has no dimension from bottom hole to bottom pin. I wanna make sure it’s long enough to have the bottom bolt still in the frame.

[Ram12vcummins]

Some more measurements and pictures

Looks like I can take a die grinder and make hole larger. I’ll have to cut tab off other end of the bag mount.
The bags are offset 1” off center of mount so I’ll have to make my own top bag mounts as the 2 rear mounts will probably be 1/2” further under the truck and because of the plate on my truck the front 2 will be a full 1” under.

Any suggestion what should be put under the axle for a wedge when I reassamble? Or just copy what’s there? It will go straight to alignment shop once the job is done anyway. But that’s roughly and hour n bit away.

I’m in line to do a motor replacement pretty much right away so will try do the work once I pull motor. Should be easier that way.

[jfaulkner]

Originally Posted by Ram12vcummins

These pins and bushings don’t look to have any flat edges to spin in like on my truck. I’m assuming I can press them out and replace with what my truck has?

Those are the latest and greatest greaseless spring pins and like non-greaseable U-joints they’re junk. Grease guns are so difficult to use for some people so they think this is the next best thing. You can replace them with the old style that never need changed, or you can put these back in and do them every year. They pop and crack when you turn which is nice.

[Ram12vcummins]

Originally Posted by jfaulkner

Those are the latest and greatest greaseless spring pins and like non-greaseable U-joints they’re junk. Grease guns are so difficult to use for some people so they think this is the next best thing. You can replace them with the old style that never need changed, or you can put these back in and do them every year. They pop and crack when you turn which is nice.

Ya that’s what I kind of figured. I just did the pins and bushings on my truck little over a year ago. I’ll push these pos out and get the proper bushing type and install the greaseable pins again.

I know guys that grease at oil changes of 30k. It’s sad. It takes 15 min tops to grease my entire truck.

[Ram12vcummins]

Making some room for new engine and trans. Eaton says the 18spd would be .7” longer than my 13. So if it is am I safe to move my hanger bearing back and eat up the .7”. Would leave .8” before the slip joint bottoms out. Think it would work?

[Ram12vcummins]

Another thing. I don’t think the front loop of the ag130 spring will fit my shackle. I think it will bind on the top. So what would be the thoughts on cutting the spring that curls around the other spring. It isn’t touching in that whole area. I forgot to take a picture. I can snap one in the morning. But I drew one to kind of show.



Cutting on the black mark and removing the top piece of the bottom spring. Obviously as little as I have to. But I’m pretty sure it will not fit as there isn’t clearance above.

[sootie]

Just remember when you're cutting any spring material, to keep it cool with cutting fluid or water. Thee is a reason most springs are sheared to length...

[Ram12vcummins]

Originally Posted by sootie

Just remember when you're cutting any spring material, to keep it cool with cutting fluid or water. Thee is a reason most springs are sheared to length...

I could use my metal cutting saw. It wouldn’t heat it up much or a band saw. But ya keeping it cool is fine.

Can you see any reason that piece missing would have any negative effect?