Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Tech
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-10-2011, 06:48 AM   #1
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
4BT Power Recipie

I am looking for any input as to what would be required to get approx. 350 RWHP from a 4BT, either a VE or P-pump. So far I have only come across VE pump engines but info for a P-Pump model would be nice. I Plan on rebuilding the engine from the ground up and having the rotating assembly balanced. I am considering shot peening the connecting rods just to add some extra strength for future plans while Iím in there. I have seen a few people use the PDR diesel camshaft for the 4bt with good results and curious as to how much of an improvement it is over stock. Does anyone know? The engine will have an intercooler. For the VE pump Iím going with the obvious: 3500 rpm governor spring, probably a fuel pin and some meticulous tuning. I am guessing a set of POD injectors would be required for this power level but I may be wrong. I am going to use head studs for good measure and I am thinking of running a compound turbo set up, perhaps an early model H1C with the 9cm2 turbine over an hx40 or something along those lines. The engine is going in a 1990 Chevy S10 and my goal is to have a RELIABLE daily driver that barely smokes when it is all said and done. Any knowledge would be much appreciated.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 07:06 AM   #2
LReiff

Name: LReiff
Title: The Antistock
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Newburg, PA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 9,194
Good first post!

Turbocharger...look for a HE341 off a 03-04 dodge or an HY35 off an 01-02 dodge, both have a 9cm turbine housing and flow enough to support 350hp being too laggy.

Injectors...I would recommend 7x12 sac type tips with modified pintle lift.

Cam...Colt Cams has a 181/210 grind that will drop in and spool that charger nicely.

Pump...A p-pump will get you there the easiest.
__________________
Lee


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4dually
If anyone thinks the internet is serious they should seriously log off and burn their laptop.

Last edited by LReiff; 09-10-2011 at 07:13 AM.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 03:45 PM   #3
Jim Fulmer
 
Jim Fulmer's Avatar

Name: Jim Fulmer
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wichita Falls Tx.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,941
You don't hear much about 4BT builds but P-pump would be the way to go if you can.

Jim
__________________
01' 12V, S/B, Q/C, 4WD
98' 12V, S/B, Q/C, 2WD, 215 pump....Broken
 
Old 09-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #4
khaoskustoms
 
khaoskustoms's Avatar

Name: khaoskustoms
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,213
I'm at about 275hp on fuel with a VE pump and twin turbos. Pretty much all a VE will do.
__________________
Twin Turbo 4BT Dodge Dakota
07.5 6.7, Carli and Deleted
98 12v Dually, Tow pig
 
Old 09-10-2011, 05:04 PM   #5
khaoskustoms
 
khaoskustoms's Avatar

Name: khaoskustoms
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Cams View Post
P-pump for a 4bt Cummins - eBay (item 180720186248 end time Sep-11-11 23:02:19 PDT)

At 420 cc's of fuel that should meet 350hp easily.

4bt engines due to the lack of displacement are always fighting to spool the chargers. Getting a good injection pump a decent flowing head and a good cam will help a lot. Look at the 188-220 as it will make more power and spool the chargers much better than the PDR cam.

Zach
I got's one of them.
__________________
Twin Turbo 4BT Dodge Dakota
07.5 6.7, Carli and Deleted
98 12v Dually, Tow pig
 
Old 09-11-2011, 06:39 AM   #6
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
Thanks for the quick replies, I posted a similar thread on 4btswaps.com and it took weeks to hear anything and none of the replies were very helpful.
I don't know exactly what the specs are for the POD injectors as far as orifice size, quantity etc., but where would I find the injectors mentioned by LReiff? I am guessing they would be a custom order, or am I wrong? Since the head will be at the machine shop any way for new valve guides, would it be worth the $$$ to have it ported, and or polished, If nothing else at least on the exhaust side to help with turbo spool up?

I checked out the Colt Cams website and could not find an actual 4bt cam offered other than the custom cam made for the SBC rail. I also checked out the Hamilton cam which I like, would I need to upgrade the valve springs since I am not running large amounts of boost or excessively high RPM?

I've read other builds where people used the HY35 turbo and a consistent issue I've seen mentioned is higher EGT's with the HY versus the HX35. Has anyone seen this same problem? If I used the Hamilton 188-220 cam and had the head ported and polished, would this compensate for the larger turbine on the HX35 and limit turbo lag similar to what the HY would have?

I have also heard of a hybrid turbo that uses a stock non-waste gated H1C turbo from an early model dodge then replace the turbine housing with smaller 9cm 2 housing. Supposedly this set up has quicker spool up than the HY35 due to the smaller impeller used in the 4bt turbo. Has anyone heard of this?

Thanks again for the input.
 
Old 09-11-2011, 07:44 AM   #7
jaybuller
 
jaybuller's Avatar

Name: jaybuller
Title: USCG MK
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Traverse city, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,446
yeah the 4btswaps site is packed full of good info, but for the most part the members over there are looking for mileage with these motors not hp, so not a whole lot of high hp knowlege over there from what ive seen. Heck seems like thats all they care about on this site is going fast and big hp numbers! which is great.
__________________
1997 4x4 5 speed 12v sold
2002 f250 7.3 sold then totaled
1995 2wd auto 12v sold
1997 4x4 auto 12v sold.....
1989 K5 Blazer 4x4. ppumped 4bt cummins/nv4500sold
2001 X 4x4 7.3 stroker
05 2wd 1500 ram..12v 4500 4x4 swap underway
 
Old 09-11-2011, 09:31 AM   #8
GOT-Torque
 
GOT-Torque's Avatar

Name: GOT-Torque
Title: is
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Falls City, NE
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,695
I've got a 188/220 as well as Zach's springs. Using a HE341 for the turbo. Ported head and inline pump like the one shown above on ebay. I do have another spare pump, brand new untouched I would sell for a few hundred less than the one shown above.

I haven't had a chance to put the engine in the truck yet, but hope to as soon as I get my new garage framed up. Going into a 96 RCLB.
__________________
01 Dinosaur - "It's Only Money"
03 6.7 dually - tow rig

EATSOOT.com
 
Old 09-11-2011, 08:13 PM   #9
bigbluecummins

Name: bigbluecummins
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 42
Does the 188-220 need flycuts?
 
Old 09-12-2011, 03:23 AM   #10
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
Again, thanks for the info. Any other thoughts as to the turbo options or where I might be able to source the injectors from? They sound custom but I could be wrong.

Also out of curiosity, LReiff, what where your considerations for choosing those particular injectors?
 
Old 09-12-2011, 07:43 AM   #11
LReiff

Name: LReiff
Title: The Antistock
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Newburg, PA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 9,194
As long as the spray angle is correct, those nozzles make power and fuel mileage. To determine spray angle, you will need to know piston bowl design, pump type and target injection timing. Depending on pump type, the hole size may also need to be different.

Last edited by LReiff; 09-12-2011 at 07:44 AM.
 
Old 09-15-2011, 04:16 AM   #12
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
Okay, makes sense. Do you have any reccomendations as to where I might be able to buy those injectors, assuming those are indeed the ones I need?
 
Old 09-17-2011, 04:45 PM   #13
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
Would it be worth my time and cash to have the head ported and or polished?
 
Old 09-17-2011, 04:48 PM   #14
WUnderwood
 
WUnderwood's Avatar

Name: WUnderwood
Title: CompD Minion
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,919
you could clean up the head in a few hours, with air tools and the right equipment
__________________
2012 Ford F-250 Lariat FX4

Click the image to open in full size.

RIP BFD99 & jponder
 
Old 09-17-2011, 08:32 PM   #15
DEZLFREK
 
DEZLFREK's Avatar

Name: DEZLFREK
Title: my licence plate says it
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: sonoma,ca
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,492
i have a set of barely used pod injectors i will let go cheap if your interested pm me
__________________
2k,cam,northeast diesel 12mm pump,big blue24 ,625's,block stiffener,pcs,4r100,spec rite tc, T$62/65/12 over a billet 80/96/1.10.
67 nova,l33 block,4.8,243s,csu 750,e85,475/87/1.10,ptc 3600 9.5 tc,t brake 400, tci front and 4 link, 9"spool,3.25,mt 275's= 9.55@148
 
Old 09-21-2011, 02:19 AM   #16
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
Thanks for the offer on the injectors but I'll pass. What is the general concensus on aftermarket gasket sets? I have seen various companies that offer full gasket sets and full rebuild kits for the 4bt and they are cheaper in price than OE Cummins parts. My suspicion is that they are cheaper in quality as well, am I right?
 
Old 09-21-2011, 02:44 AM   #17
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Danger Zone
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,332
Non intercooled piston, 155į injector. You could use a JD nozzle if you desired to, but I believe a cylindrical sac type injector might not be best for efficiency.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Reach Out World Wide
 
Old 09-21-2011, 08:04 PM   #18
4bt bowtie

Name: 4bt bowtie
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Garrett, IN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 32
What Is the design difference between the intercooled and non-Intercooled pistons?
 
Old 09-22-2011, 08:51 AM   #19
LReiff

Name: LReiff
Title: The Antistock
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Newburg, PA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 9,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bt bowtie View Post
Thanks for the offer on the injectors but I'll pass. What is the general concensus on aftermarket gasket sets? I have seen various companies that offer full gasket sets and full rebuild kits for the 4bt and they are cheaper in price than OE Cummins parts. My suspicion is that they are cheaper in quality as well, am I right?
I would use an OE Cummins head gasket, other gaskets and seals are not so critical.
__________________
Lee


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4dually
If anyone thinks the internet is serious they should seriously log off and burn their laptop.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 09:26 PM   #20
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Danger Zone
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bt bowtie View Post
What Is the design difference between the intercooled and non-Intercooled pistons?
Bowl type and size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Reach Out World Wide
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 AM.

 
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.3.8.6
Copyright ©2006 - 2014, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com