6.7 Swapped into 5.9

S

sdward14

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I've been lurking around the forum for a bit now, figured it was about time to actually start a thread.

I have an 05 that I swapped a 6.7 into, originally the plan was run a zeus to control the engine but once I got into (purchased zeus and was already driving the truck with 5.9 electronics) :badidea: the idea of losing the ac and everything else on the PCI bus sounded less then desirable for a DD.

The white smoke and stumble on start up is really starting to get old, so I'm starting to actively look for a solution. I was able to tune some of it out with UDC but definitely not all of it. Not really convinced it could be tuned out anyways from what I've read in joesixpack's posts on the injector current profiles being different.

I have read that 03-04 injectors work in the 6.7, but before I jump and spend a bunch more money I figured I'd ask and see if anybody has any experience or insight into getting 6.7 injectors to play nicely with 5.9 electronics.

Steve
 
All I can say is that some people say they have gotten 6.7 injectors to work with EFI Live on a CM849 ecm (06-07), but the info seems to end there.

If it could definitively be answered and a surefire solution found, without all the cloak and dagger BS, the pool of good, reliable, injectors to replace the crap 2003-2007 5.9 ones would sure open up.

Mark.
 
Unfortunately EFI Live is another can of worms in entirely for me since I have a 05 and am pre-CAN Bus. Only options I'm aware to even try to use EFI would be to swap ECMs (lose ac, etc) or run piggyback ECM.. both of which are less then desirable solutions. The piece I'd really like to understand out of all of this is what the real differences are an in the 6.7 vs 5.9 injector current profiles.. Or if it's really just better (cost,time,effort) to swap in 03-04 injectors and be "done"

Steve
 
I just ran the 03 electronics and injectors. At the time of my swap, no one thought the 6.7 injectors would work.
 
The 2003 (and early 2004, aka CM846) electronics are unique, in that they only use 2 injection events to drive the injectors instead of 3.
It's entirely possible that they have the amperage needed to "properly" drive 6.7 injectors.

Mark.
 
2003-2005 ECM's do not like the 6.7 injectors, they work but have a mid range stumble and make considerably less power then a comparable 5.9L injector.

2006-07 CMB 849 ECM's will re-calibrate for the the 6.7 injectors so they will start with a stumble & white smoke, re-calibrate after a second or two and run smooth and make good power.
 
LAmiller said:
...2006-07 CMB 849 ECM's will re-calibrate for the the 6.7 injectors so they will start with a stumble & white smoke, re-calibrate after a second or two and run smooth and make good power.
Click to expand...

Why then is the complaint continually brought up, if it fixes itself?
If it does this on EVERY start up, then it's not satisfactory for a daily driver for most of us.

Mark.
 
LAmiller said:
2006-07 CMB 849 ECM's will re-calibrate for the the 6.7 injectors so they will start with a stumble & white smoke, re-calibrate after a second or two and run smooth and make good power.
Click to expand...

I wanna think it is an outside source causing this issue and not a characteristic of running 6.7 stix with a CMB ecm. Reason being is my CMC 08 6.7 stumbles twice almost on every startup and has puff of white smoke between the stumble. More so when cold. I haven't dug into it yet but I don't remember it doing this prior to the PO deleting the grid heater. At some point I'm gonna see if it OS related and try to get a log while doing it. Just hasn't bothered me enough to mess with it. It doesn't sound like a too cold weather spit/sputter either.
 
Mark Nixon said:
Why then is the complaint continually brought up, if it fixes itself?
If it does this on EVERY start up, then it's not satisfactory for a daily driver for most of us.

Mark.
Click to expand...

Matt Kauffman has run 250% over 6.7 injectors in his 5.9L all summer, daily driving and ran a best of 10.6@129mph. The only difference between these 6.7L injectors and the previous 200% over 5.9L injectors is on the initial start up, there is a stumble/white smoke.
 
LAmiller you're spot on at least based on my experience so far. My truck stumbles on start up and white smokes but clears up in a few seconds of running. This as Mark pointed out is an annoyance as a DD, at least to me, race only who cares when you're making 1200+ hp.

Mark you did bring up something I hadn't ever considered tho. When I had started digging into the possibility of running EFI I was under the assumption it was a hard 06 year line of EFI working or not. However I have a CM849 ECM, this makes me wonder if there is a difference between my 05 CM849 and an 06 CM849.

Now whether EFI would even solve my start up stumble no clue..

CRP
You also raise an interesting point in that I have noticed it most often stumbles on initial "cold" starts. Some mornings it barely smokes at all and others it barely seems to want to start. The closest thing I can compare it to is misses on startup, had a V16 at work start very similar with one bank of injectors not firing. The interesting thing to me is that if I drive for a bit get the clt temps up and then shut it down and a minute or so later start right back up it rarely smokes or stumbles at all. I had attributed this to battery voltage and the way that peak hold injector circuits typically work along with the influence that temperature has on the inductance of the injector coil, and resulting pintle response.

What ECM are you running with your 08 I'm not familiar with CMC?
 
is there an advantage to running the 6.7 injectors? I know people say they are cheaper and less likely to fail, but hasen't bosch got their stuff together with the new 5.9's? I guess I could deal with a little startup smoke if I knew the injectors would last twice as long as the 5.9's.
 
The benefit of the 6.7 injectors are the flow capabilities of the body. But, as Lavon stated, we learned after my trial run the pre 06 ECM can't correctly fire them. Start up smoke, low rpm studder, then a 1900-2200 rpm studder. I do not recommend trying these on a non EFI capable ECM. Matt Kauffman is running my old 250% set, and has had impressive results power and run wise. I'm running his 5.9 injectors, and my truck went back to running like it should. This was my experience, and it wasn't good
 
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So, I'm getting a conflicting view here.
Can the OEM 6.7 injectors be run PROPERLY with an EFI Live tuned CM849 ECM, or not?
A clear answer is apparently hard to give, or some sort of Secret Squirrel Schit?

Mark.
 
Woosley, are you saying stock to stock the 6.7 body is capable of flowing more then the 5.9? This meaning more power potential at higher rpm's. For a street truck this is not needed, but the reliability of the 6.7 seems to be far superior as well.
 
As much as I would love to figure out how to actually control the 6.7 injectors using an 05 ECM and even external circuitry, it sounds like really the best option is to just use 03-04 injectors.

It would be interesting to know if a CM849 tuned with EFI is capable of running 6.7 injectors but I'm willing to bet that there isn't an answer that holds across the board. IMO there too many variables that effect the injector driver circuit and the response of the injector solenoid itself.

Really the only way to have a clue if it could reliably be accomplished would to be to know what the factory 6.7 current profile looks like vs the 5.9 and determine if the 5.9 output could be modified to match the Crin3 profile. I know joesixpack was able to accomplish this using the NIRA, but I've never been able to find any reference to peak or hold currents around the forums or for that matter in any of the documentation I have access to at work regarding the Crin3 injectors.
 
A EFI capable CM849 ECM will run the 6.7 injector, but you WILL HAVE white smoke stubble on cold starts. I have not been able to find a calibration in the EFI software to compensate for this. So it will run the injectors properly, but you will have to tolerate the stumble/white smoke on startup.

Lavon
 
I'm just gonna order 03-04 injectors and be done with it. Anybody run BBI injectors in a 6.7? Any general recommendations on a source for injectors beyond BBI? Assuming that I cant turn in 6.7 injectors as core for 04 BMS injectors..
 
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