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07-30-2020, 03:28 PM
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#1
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Name: musicims
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2020
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Posts: 1
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Is it possible to bend a rod hydrolocking with fuel
I made one final drive to my garage to swap out the injectors that I have been needing. They're not in terrible shape, just one that is causing a little lope at idle and some haze with it. Anyway I went to go hot start it after I cleared the garage to pull it in and it cranked over a couple then it stopped and sounded like a weird squish sound from the engine and the starter rolled back and quit. I tried cranking again and it cranked fine but would not start, I was not looking at rail pressure during cranking but I believe there was enough pressure. Gave it a few seconds and tried again and it fired up with a decent puff of smoke and wet soot belching out but cleared up back to normal.
Just off of speculation, I think that one, my problem injector, leaked down into the cylinder and it tried to hydrolock when I went to start it. I think that even though the starter sounded like it was kicked backwards the weird squish sound also makes me think that it compressed it and then got over TDC and pushed the starter further after the TDC compression. Is it possible to bend the rod in this situation? Does the starter have enough torque to overcome the cylinder pressure and actually bend parts?
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07-30-2020, 04:10 PM
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#2
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Name: Big Blue24
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cedar City, UT
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Posts: 6,310
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The starter does not have enough torque to bend a rod.
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07-31-2020, 11:17 AM
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#3
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
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Posts: 1,521
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Any liquid can bend a rod since it can't be compressed, but we're talking about introducing that liquid into the cylinder at running speeds; a starter won't do it. You can scuff up a bearing if it's repeated enough times, but the rod won't care.
__________________
2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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07-31-2020, 04:59 PM
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#4
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Name: displacedtexan
Title: $500 PREMIUM MEMBER
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mobilehoma
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Posts: 13,876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue24
The starter does not have enough torque to bend a rod.
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Exactly.
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I talk loud.
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08-06-2020, 08:59 AM
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#5
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Name: 74Powerwagon
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Kingsburg Cal
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Posts: 34
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Is it possible to bend a rod hydrolocking with fuel
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicims
I made one final drive to my garage to swap out the injectors that I have been needing. They're not in terrible shape, just one that is causing a little lope at idle and some haze with it. Anyway I went to go hot start it after I cleared the garage to pull it in and it cranked over a couple then it stopped and sounded like a weird squish sound from the engine and the starter rolled back and quit. I tried cranking again and it cranked fine but would not start, I was not looking at rail pressure during cranking but I believe there was enough pressure. Gave it a few seconds and tried again and it fired up with a decent puff of smoke and wet soot belching out but cleared up back to normal.
Just off of speculation, I think that one, my problem injector, leaked down into the cylinder and it tried to hydrolock when I went to start it. I think that even though the starter sounded like it was kicked backwards the weird squish sound also makes me think that it compressed it and then got over TDC and pushed the starter further after the TDC compression. Is it possible to bend the rod in this situation? Does the starter have enough torque to overcome the cylinder pressure and actually bend parts?
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I have heard some stuff of people bending rods but I mean personally I would feel like you’d hear it if you could crank it over pull injectors and crank it over. Had issues with my old power wagon and it hydrolocked 4 cylinders but didn’t bend rods. Also agree that a starter doesn’t have enough torque would have to be running to bend the rod.
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Last edited by 74Powerwagon; 08-06-2020 at 09:00 AM.
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08-06-2020, 01:01 PM
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#6
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Name: AsTroSS
Title: problems start @80 psi
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Europe
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Posts: 4,327
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I have not hydroloced Cummins........, but according to my experience with other engines, I can confirm : starter can bend the conrods.
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08-06-2020, 01:25 PM
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#7
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,821
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I've seen engines with rods bent just enough to cause incomplete combustion at specific RPM, and operate completely fine is other operating conditions.
We had one that cranked and ran with water in the cylinders because the rain cap failed. It ran at full load for 17 minutes before it gutted itself due to the piston group failure.
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08-06-2020, 02:15 PM
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#8
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Name: BigPapa
Title: Truckless
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Springfield, TN
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Posts: 5,010
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I've seen it on 7.3L's.
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Scott
2003 Avalanche Z71
Common sense is like deodorant. The people that need it most never use it.
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11-28-2020, 01:48 PM
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#9
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Name: ramtough01
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: wisconsin
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Posts: 2,775
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I had a rod bend from starting. my water injection siphoned in over nite next morning went to start and stopped just like you did tried it again and ran rough. Pulled engine about and number 3 was bent a little and just hit the bottom of the sleeve and knocked a little chunk off. Threw new rods in and was good to go
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11-29-2020, 06:07 PM
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#10
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Name: bateman
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Alabama
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Posts: 2,668
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Sounds like a starter can bend a rod.
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11-30-2020, 03:37 AM
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#11
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
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Posts: 1,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bateman
Sounds like a starter can bend a rod.
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Well, I’m not going to call the man a liar since anything is possible with engines. However, I’ve been diagnosing, machining, repairing and rebuilding engines of every size since I was a zygote and I’ve never seen it.
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2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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11-30-2020, 06:02 AM
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#12
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
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Posts: 18,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuggler
Well, I’m not going to call the man a liar since anything is possible with engines. However, I’ve been diagnosing, machining, repairing and rebuilding engines of every size since I was a zygote and I’ve never seen it.
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Well... Zygotes can hardly do anything resembling reason, so.. I'm not going to believe much of anything you ever say. Haha
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11-30-2020, 06:54 AM
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#13
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Name: BigPapa
Title: Truckless
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Springfield, TN
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Posts: 5,010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuggler
...I was a zygote...
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Is that anything like antifa?
__________________
Scott
2003 Avalanche Z71
Common sense is like deodorant. The people that need it most never use it.
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11-30-2020, 07:26 AM
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#14
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Name: bateman
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Alabama
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Posts: 2,668
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Hahah nice.
Wasn’t trying to sound like I was calling anyone a liar btw.
Maybe it isn’t the starter but more that some of these trucks crank in half a turn it seems. Some cylinders popping off must be enough force to bend one.
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11-30-2020, 05:30 PM
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#15
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
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Posts: 1,521
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Hey, no offense taken here. I don't care how long you've been doing something, if you're doing it with your eyes open you'll see things you never saw before on a regular basis.
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2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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11-30-2020, 06:09 PM
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#16
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuggler
Well, I’m not going to call the man a liar since anything is possible with engines. However, I’ve been diagnosing, machining, repairing and rebuilding engines of every size since I was a zygote and I’ve never seen it.
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For you...... Rain cap fell corroded until it fell off. We had a record rainfall. Cylinder filled with water. They cranked it and it ran 17 minutes until the block was cut in half. It was still running when they shut it off because of the ensuing fire. The rod lodge when it spun down, and stopped the engine so violently that it sheered the PTO's and split the case of the Hydraulic clutch that drove the machine (petersen 4700b)
Im assuming with a high degree of confidence that the rod bent before it helicoptered.
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12-01-2020, 04:42 AM
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#17
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238
For you...... Rain cap fell corroded until it fell off. We had a record rainfall. Cylinder filled with water. They cranked it and it ran 17 minutes until the block was cut in half. It was still running when they shut it off because of the ensuing fire. The rod lodge when it spun down, and stopped the engine so violently that it sheered the PTO's and split the case of the Hydraulic clutch that drove the machine (petersen 4700b)
Im assuming with a high degree of confidence that the rod bent before it helicoptered.
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If it wasn’t a C15/3406 Cat I may have just agreed with you but kitty cats have pretty beefy rods in them. Still not saying that it’s impossible, but it’s much more likely that the failure came from the water turning the oil into peanut butter. The problem started with the rod bearing. I actually see this often with standby gensets with exhaust systems that didn’t account for condensation disposal.
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2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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12-01-2020, 05:41 AM
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#18
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuggler
If it wasn’t a C15/3406 Cat I may have just agreed with you but kitty cats have pretty beefy rods in them. Still not saying that it’s impossible, but it’s much more likely that the failure came from the water turning the oil into peanut butter. The problem started with the rod bearing. I actually see this often with standby gensets with exhaust systems that didn’t account for condensation disposal.
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You are a stubborn beast.
And if there were no signs of deformation or heat at the big end, and the oil sample was clean (what was left of it)?
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__________________
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'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
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12-01-2020, 09:40 AM
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#19
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
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Posts: 1,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238
You are a stubborn beast.
And if there were no signs of deformation or heat at the big end, and the oil sample was clean (what was left of it)?
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You skipped the part where I said that "anything is possible". I'm just saying that it's unlikely. Calm down, the vagisil is in aisle 5.
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2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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12-01-2020, 11:02 AM
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#20
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
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Posts: 10,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuggler
You skipped the part where I said that "anything is possible". I'm just saying that it's unlikely. Calm down, the vagisil is in aisle 5.
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I'm calm. Just seeing how far you will go.
FWIW I agree, the bearing should deform and fail before the tensile strong of the rod is exceeded.
The engine in the picture was isolated. They keep the machine in a large warehouse. They happened to have left it outside for building maintenance and it got hosed.
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__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
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