AFc mod posts where are they????
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White Knight
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Smokem had some issues and requested all of his posts be removed.
Try searching for information from other people.
Here are some write-ups on other sites that might be helpful:
AFC Mods from KBBT - DieselRam.com
AFC stuff - TheDieselGarage.com
Try searching for information from other people.
Here are some write-ups on other sites that might be helpful:
AFC Mods from KBBT - DieselRam.com
AFC stuff - TheDieselGarage.com
Mo Smoke
It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere
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- Dec 13, 2006
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- 1,639
I have this but can't remember who wrote it...
boy where to start?
Let's start with gov arm adjustment. Now maybe I'm just reading too much into it but I set my gov/plate contact with the engine running at idle with the AFC cover off. Why? I got to studying the stock plate and with the engine off, the common knowledge is to set the lever where all the cutaway images show....BELOW the big protrusion on the plate. Then I got to wondering about how that arm is smoothly going to ridse over that protrusion. So I looked at my 100 plate conmtact with the arm at rest (solenoid in run position tho) then fired up the engine and checked it again. The lever won't swing out until you lightly stab the throttle, but I noticed that the arm contacts the plate a lot higher than at rest. We can only attribute this to gov springs acting on the gov arm. So rather than set the plate with the engine off, I run it and set the plate to the arm with the enginre running. The difference in arm height is about 1/4 inch...coincidentally about how much higher the arm would have to be to clear that protrusion on the stock plate. So my belief is that when running, the arm starts on the protrusion and not below it as it would seem. Now not many of us are running stock plates, but the theory applies anyway. I have never had to adjust my gov arm to a plate.....except maybe the "0" I was running for a while. Now I'm not passing this along as gospel, or to shake the foundations everyone swears by, but if you car to dabble, have a go at it and see what I mean. While my engine is off, my arm will swing under the plate, but have never had it bind underneath...this is proof to me that my theory is correct. So if you're setting the bleeding edge, maybe setting the arm on the nose of that pointed plate would be better done while the engine is running.....and hopefully you can get the plate where you want it without adjusting the arm any!!
Next for the AFC.....several adjustments there, but not everyone understands them completely. At this point we know that the AFC is there to limit fuel supply during low, or no boost conditions. That's itsa only function, cut and dried, don't let anyone tell you differently. With a stock spring, after about 6 psi, no more AFC influence on the pump...that simple. If you have low tension springs in it, cut that down to about 2 psi. We know that the AFC lever protrudes down into the pump cavity right next to the fuel plate, and at no or low boost, it catches the gov arm and limits fuel that way. So what are we doing by moving the housing forward? We are simply moving THE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY farther to the front of the engine which allows the gov arm to travel farther which allows more fuel....that simple. So what about the star wheel? That wheel acts on a spring that pre-loads the pressure diaphram which is boost controlled. If we turn the starwheel towards the engine, it moves forward, releasing spring pre-load on the diaphram. As this pre-load goes away, it takes less boost to act on the diaphram and move the AFC lever out of the gov arm travel path. We think of these as the fine and coarse adjustments for the AFC, which is not totally true. The coarse adjustment is indeed moving the housing itself. But the fine adjustment is not the starwheel.....it's the so called smoke screw. You don't see this becasue it is on the back of the AFC housing under a sealed cover with a break off crew. This screw actually bottoms out on the diaphram center...from the boost side of the diaphram. And what happens when we add boost? The diaphram moves the AFC lever out of the way right? So by screwing this stud in, we give the lever a head start getting out of the way...much like moving the housing. That is why it is truly the fine adjustment. So we can set the housing in one position, then fine tune that position with the smoke screw. These adjustments alone will influence off idle smoke....not the star wheel. The star wheel will influence how long it takes to come off pre-boost fuel and into full fuel. So lets tune a pump...
We buy a truck and the previous owner moved the housing forward, cranked the starwheel fwd and didn't even know about the smoke screw...so it's in it's stock position. The thing smokes off the line like a freight train and bogs like crazy...then when 6 or 8 psi comes around, it surges with power and breaks all the tires loose....that darn turbo lag right? Now let's tune the afc.
Start by getting the access to the smoke screw...take the AFC off and remove the break off screw and smoke screw cover. Loosen the smoke screw lock nut and back out the screw several turns until it feels loose. Now screw it back in by hand until you can "JUST FEEL" the screw bottom out on the diaphram. Snug up the lock-nut a little and now set the AFC back to a middle position on the pump. Take out that hex plug on top of the AFC and bring the star wheel back from full forward about 3 full revolutions and put the plug back in. Now we have a starting point. Put her in gear and nail it. Do we have any smoke? No? then adjust that smoke screw a little at a time until it "just hazes" on take off. If you can't get that, loosen the smoke screw about halfway back out and reset the housing .020 farther fwd or so. Now try it again. Still no haze....adjust that screw in to get it. Or did we have too much smoke? back the screw off until it clears a little. You get the idea right? Any more than a slight haze off idle and you're wasting fuel, and maybe even hindering spool-up by quenching the cylinders with excess fuel and "puting the fire out" so to speak. So let's say we got the off idle launch looking good. Now it launches good but it takes too long for the turbo to come to life and the smoke goes away but no boost and it's laggy. That means we need to lessen the diaphram preload with the starwheel. This will hasten the curve out of pre-boost fuel control by allowing the diaphram to move with less boost pressure. Keep adjusting the wheel until there's a slight haze while you gauge shows less than 6 psi or so. If you get too much smoke once your RPM's start to climb, but before 6 psi or so, cranking the starwheel backwards will limit the fuel, cut the smoke, and smooth out the power. It's a balance game between the 3 adjustments....initial fuel delivery vs. building boost without quenching combustion. You'll know when you're right on....it'll launch hard, won't smoke, and boost climb will be smooth and rapid. These adjustments pertain mainly to the tune conscious driver, who wants drivability no matter who climbs behind the wheel, and isn't fueling for a funny car.
Now all of you have spotted my sig and said wait a minute...all this AFC tuning and he took his completley off...what gives? I DRIVE my truck, and my right foot does alot of the tuning as required at the timer of need!! You are not going to remove an AFC circuit and stomp the throttle from a stop and expect anything but a volcanic eruption with nothing to show for it!! You have to roll into the throttle as conditions demand, sometimes more, sometimes less. I like having that control, and not letting the pump decide for me with a one size fits all adjustment. I will tell you that boost response at speed is instant, and off-line punch is tremendous, once you learn how to drive it. Even at speed when our little boost gauges say 2-3 psi....guess who's holding the cards for you? Your AFC....still won't let you into full fuel until boost pressures are realized, and that just may be enough of a lag to give some half a car headstart during a rolling race.....excuse me....I meant to say when you need instant passing power. If you're a step on the loud pedal and go type of driver forget it...you won't like it. But...if you truly DRIVE your truck, give it a try....you just MIGHT like it.
To do this, you don't have to make a block off plate or remove the AFC housing entirely. You just need to remove the arm. This is easy....on the front of the AFC housing is a 10mm bolt that hold what looks like a bellcrank and shaft. Remove this bolt, then with a small screwdriver, pop the bellcrank loose and pull out the shaft. It will have o rings on it to seal the housing. Once this is out, lift out the AFC arm, put the shaft back in and snug up the retaining bolt again. Now it doesn't matter where the AFC housing is, or the smoke screw, or the starwheel....so just bolt it back on. re-attach your boost line....it'll still act oin the diaphram, but the diapohram won't be doing anything so don't worry about it. If you want to remove the AFC signal line go ahead...just remember to replace it with a plug in the manifold!! Now you right foot does all the adjusting for you on the fly, and is completely dynamic to conditions...cool huh? It only takes a few minutes to do, so if you don't like it, put her back in and forget about it.
boy where to start?
Let's start with gov arm adjustment. Now maybe I'm just reading too much into it but I set my gov/plate contact with the engine running at idle with the AFC cover off. Why? I got to studying the stock plate and with the engine off, the common knowledge is to set the lever where all the cutaway images show....BELOW the big protrusion on the plate. Then I got to wondering about how that arm is smoothly going to ridse over that protrusion. So I looked at my 100 plate conmtact with the arm at rest (solenoid in run position tho) then fired up the engine and checked it again. The lever won't swing out until you lightly stab the throttle, but I noticed that the arm contacts the plate a lot higher than at rest. We can only attribute this to gov springs acting on the gov arm. So rather than set the plate with the engine off, I run it and set the plate to the arm with the enginre running. The difference in arm height is about 1/4 inch...coincidentally about how much higher the arm would have to be to clear that protrusion on the stock plate. So my belief is that when running, the arm starts on the protrusion and not below it as it would seem. Now not many of us are running stock plates, but the theory applies anyway. I have never had to adjust my gov arm to a plate.....except maybe the "0" I was running for a while. Now I'm not passing this along as gospel, or to shake the foundations everyone swears by, but if you car to dabble, have a go at it and see what I mean. While my engine is off, my arm will swing under the plate, but have never had it bind underneath...this is proof to me that my theory is correct. So if you're setting the bleeding edge, maybe setting the arm on the nose of that pointed plate would be better done while the engine is running.....and hopefully you can get the plate where you want it without adjusting the arm any!!
Next for the AFC.....several adjustments there, but not everyone understands them completely. At this point we know that the AFC is there to limit fuel supply during low, or no boost conditions. That's itsa only function, cut and dried, don't let anyone tell you differently. With a stock spring, after about 6 psi, no more AFC influence on the pump...that simple. If you have low tension springs in it, cut that down to about 2 psi. We know that the AFC lever protrudes down into the pump cavity right next to the fuel plate, and at no or low boost, it catches the gov arm and limits fuel that way. So what are we doing by moving the housing forward? We are simply moving THE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY farther to the front of the engine which allows the gov arm to travel farther which allows more fuel....that simple. So what about the star wheel? That wheel acts on a spring that pre-loads the pressure diaphram which is boost controlled. If we turn the starwheel towards the engine, it moves forward, releasing spring pre-load on the diaphram. As this pre-load goes away, it takes less boost to act on the diaphram and move the AFC lever out of the gov arm travel path. We think of these as the fine and coarse adjustments for the AFC, which is not totally true. The coarse adjustment is indeed moving the housing itself. But the fine adjustment is not the starwheel.....it's the so called smoke screw. You don't see this becasue it is on the back of the AFC housing under a sealed cover with a break off crew. This screw actually bottoms out on the diaphram center...from the boost side of the diaphram. And what happens when we add boost? The diaphram moves the AFC lever out of the way right? So by screwing this stud in, we give the lever a head start getting out of the way...much like moving the housing. That is why it is truly the fine adjustment. So we can set the housing in one position, then fine tune that position with the smoke screw. These adjustments alone will influence off idle smoke....not the star wheel. The star wheel will influence how long it takes to come off pre-boost fuel and into full fuel. So lets tune a pump...
We buy a truck and the previous owner moved the housing forward, cranked the starwheel fwd and didn't even know about the smoke screw...so it's in it's stock position. The thing smokes off the line like a freight train and bogs like crazy...then when 6 or 8 psi comes around, it surges with power and breaks all the tires loose....that darn turbo lag right? Now let's tune the afc.
Start by getting the access to the smoke screw...take the AFC off and remove the break off screw and smoke screw cover. Loosen the smoke screw lock nut and back out the screw several turns until it feels loose. Now screw it back in by hand until you can "JUST FEEL" the screw bottom out on the diaphram. Snug up the lock-nut a little and now set the AFC back to a middle position on the pump. Take out that hex plug on top of the AFC and bring the star wheel back from full forward about 3 full revolutions and put the plug back in. Now we have a starting point. Put her in gear and nail it. Do we have any smoke? No? then adjust that smoke screw a little at a time until it "just hazes" on take off. If you can't get that, loosen the smoke screw about halfway back out and reset the housing .020 farther fwd or so. Now try it again. Still no haze....adjust that screw in to get it. Or did we have too much smoke? back the screw off until it clears a little. You get the idea right? Any more than a slight haze off idle and you're wasting fuel, and maybe even hindering spool-up by quenching the cylinders with excess fuel and "puting the fire out" so to speak. So let's say we got the off idle launch looking good. Now it launches good but it takes too long for the turbo to come to life and the smoke goes away but no boost and it's laggy. That means we need to lessen the diaphram preload with the starwheel. This will hasten the curve out of pre-boost fuel control by allowing the diaphram to move with less boost pressure. Keep adjusting the wheel until there's a slight haze while you gauge shows less than 6 psi or so. If you get too much smoke once your RPM's start to climb, but before 6 psi or so, cranking the starwheel backwards will limit the fuel, cut the smoke, and smooth out the power. It's a balance game between the 3 adjustments....initial fuel delivery vs. building boost without quenching combustion. You'll know when you're right on....it'll launch hard, won't smoke, and boost climb will be smooth and rapid. These adjustments pertain mainly to the tune conscious driver, who wants drivability no matter who climbs behind the wheel, and isn't fueling for a funny car.
Now all of you have spotted my sig and said wait a minute...all this AFC tuning and he took his completley off...what gives? I DRIVE my truck, and my right foot does alot of the tuning as required at the timer of need!! You are not going to remove an AFC circuit and stomp the throttle from a stop and expect anything but a volcanic eruption with nothing to show for it!! You have to roll into the throttle as conditions demand, sometimes more, sometimes less. I like having that control, and not letting the pump decide for me with a one size fits all adjustment. I will tell you that boost response at speed is instant, and off-line punch is tremendous, once you learn how to drive it. Even at speed when our little boost gauges say 2-3 psi....guess who's holding the cards for you? Your AFC....still won't let you into full fuel until boost pressures are realized, and that just may be enough of a lag to give some half a car headstart during a rolling race.....excuse me....I meant to say when you need instant passing power. If you're a step on the loud pedal and go type of driver forget it...you won't like it. But...if you truly DRIVE your truck, give it a try....you just MIGHT like it.
To do this, you don't have to make a block off plate or remove the AFC housing entirely. You just need to remove the arm. This is easy....on the front of the AFC housing is a 10mm bolt that hold what looks like a bellcrank and shaft. Remove this bolt, then with a small screwdriver, pop the bellcrank loose and pull out the shaft. It will have o rings on it to seal the housing. Once this is out, lift out the AFC arm, put the shaft back in and snug up the retaining bolt again. Now it doesn't matter where the AFC housing is, or the smoke screw, or the starwheel....so just bolt it back on. re-attach your boost line....it'll still act oin the diaphram, but the diapohram won't be doing anything so don't worry about it. If you want to remove the AFC signal line go ahead...just remember to replace it with a plug in the manifold!! Now you right foot does all the adjusting for you on the fly, and is completely dynamic to conditions...cool huh? It only takes a few minutes to do, so if you don't like it, put her back in and forget about it.
Jim Fulmer
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golfersmith
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Man, even I can understand that explanation. Thanks for making it sound "easy"! BTW, that is about where I am with mine leaving all pieces in place.
Jim Fulmer
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Sorry, do a search for AFC under my name.
Jim
Jim
Charlie_Smith
Puzzled
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- Feb 13, 2008
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Here's a thread that has a good AFC posting down in the middle:
Turning up a P-7100 pump - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
And a recent discussion over on the TDR site:
tune pre boost low end fueling - TDR Roundtable
It's a real shame Smokem is gone. Does anyone know how to reach him offline?
Turning up a P-7100 pump - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
And a recent discussion over on the TDR site:
tune pre boost low end fueling - TDR Roundtable
It's a real shame Smokem is gone. Does anyone know how to reach him offline?
Smokem
Turbler
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- May 10, 2006
- Messages
- 5,565
Under the 8mm allen plug you will find the AFC starwheel, the tension on the spring will dictate the movement @ the set pressure of the lever. This controls the mid to top range of the fuel curve.
The pre-boost screw located on the back of the AFC housing dictates the starting location of the lever, it's location will alter the off idle travel of the governor lever. This controls the off idle or low end fuel curve.
You can see in the following picture the diaphragm washers have been exchanged on the lever on left. This allows the lever to travel further forward in the housing, however this will not allow you to recess the lever as far as often needed. I recommend finding a washer the same diameter to replace both, thus allowing full movement in both directions.
The black arrow in this pictures shows where the AFC foot has been ground, I would recommend avoiding this in most applications. The red arrow shows the forward barrel of the lever, this can be ground or cut off ~ 0.090" to allow for full travel.
Just a cut-away view, the green arrow indicates the pre-boost adjustment, the black arrow indicates the rack adjustment, and the red arrow indicates the governor height adjustment.
The spring and tension applied to the spring will vary depending on the level of fueling. Also the starting position of the AFC lever controlled by the pre-boost adjustment will dictate how much fuel is applied before the lever overtakes the unrestricted movement.
The pre-boost screw located on the back of the AFC housing dictates the starting location of the lever, it's location will alter the off idle travel of the governor lever. This controls the off idle or low end fuel curve.
You can see in the following picture the diaphragm washers have been exchanged on the lever on left. This allows the lever to travel further forward in the housing, however this will not allow you to recess the lever as far as often needed. I recommend finding a washer the same diameter to replace both, thus allowing full movement in both directions.
The black arrow in this pictures shows where the AFC foot has been ground, I would recommend avoiding this in most applications. The red arrow shows the forward barrel of the lever, this can be ground or cut off ~ 0.090" to allow for full travel.
Just a cut-away view, the green arrow indicates the pre-boost adjustment, the black arrow indicates the rack adjustment, and the red arrow indicates the governor height adjustment.
The spring and tension applied to the spring will vary depending on the level of fueling. Also the starting position of the AFC lever controlled by the pre-boost adjustment will dictate how much fuel is applied before the lever overtakes the unrestricted movement.
Last edited:
sleepin-sport
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Now that's what i'm talking about :rockwoot:
Jim Fulmer
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FYI, you can get fender washers from ACE Hardware(example) to replace the stockers. If you already have an AFC arm that some knuckle head cut on too much they are $127 new so I'm going to fix the bad one I have with a tig.
Jim
ILLINOISRAM
INLINE INSANITY
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in the amount of time it takes to read that one post you can remove the arm and plate and just dont stomp the go pedal at every stopsign. Unless you have no self control then just leave it alone. Lol
B18B1LS1
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I admit, I am one of those knuckle heads :doh: Wish I had never done it! I'm gonna get mine tigged one of these days, may even add a little extra.
bh10
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Just be be clear you want the washer to look like the picture on the left? And you want to find another washer of the same thickness/diameter for the other side? Also what about grinding them smooth/flat?You can see in the following picture the diaphragm washers have been exchanged on the lever on left. This allows the lever to travel further forward in the housing, however this will not allow you to recess the lever as far as often needed. I recommend finding a washer the same diameter to replace both, thus allowing full movement in both directions.
biggy238
Active member
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Seems like the KBBT thread directs to put the dished washer to the outside, giving just a touch of pre boost fueling, as well as allowing for the extra travel. Could be wrong.
Glad to see Smokem....
