Vgt's in triples

T

tinkertoy

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I was wondering how 2 He351ve would do on a mild set up. Stock 24v head and a small cam and bored .020. Not sure on the manifold charger. Wanting 600hp-700hp and was looking for usable torgue for towing, not really looking for peak hp.

I havent got to try the ve as a single yet so i dont know if i will like the varible turbo or not just a ideal. And what about using a EFR charger for the manifold?

And the vgt's will be controled by a fleece controler!
 
Tormentor said:
Would be nearly impossible to get the two timed together.
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I believe it would be relatively easy to get them timed together. I have a holset 431VeTi (60mm inducer) and a S475 92/ 1.10 t6 in a compound setup with the fleece controller it spools and drives awesome. The fleece controller calculates vane position using engine load and rpm and thats it. It gets these values from the 3 wire serial comm. line that allows the controller to "talk" to the ECM. As long as both turbos have never been apart or had the actuators moved out of time they all are very, very close from the factory, About .015-.025 of vane position tolerance. Assuming that one fleece box can control two separate actuators it should work very well.
 
I think Carl (turbolvr) built a triple 351ve setup a while back.

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6spdCR said:
The fleece controller calculates vane position using engine load and rpm and thats it. It gets these values from the 3 wire serial comm. line that allows the controller to "talk" to the ECM. As long as both turbos have never been apart or had the actuators moved out of time they all are very, very close from the factory, About .015-.025 of vane position tolerance.
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Sorry, no, thats not how Holset's VGT turbos work.
The 3 wires are power, ground and CAN. The controller continually "talks" with the actuator; the controller sends a position command and the actuator responds with its measured position.
Its not possible to run two VGTs from one controller because of that.
 
Well Tormentor, you obviously know more about the Fleece controller than Brayden Fleece himself... While I will agree that you probably can't run two VGT's off of one Fleece controller, You very well "may" be able to run two Fleece controllers, each running a turbo, on the same truck. The Fleece controller is 1 way communication only on a 24v or CR truck. It reads data about engine parameters, then does it's best to control the turbo to meet the demands of the engine....
 
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Don't you all mean "listen", not talk? I don't think the ECU give a damn what the turbo has to say. LOL
 
chevota84 said:
I think Carl (turbolvr) built a triple 351ve setup a while back.

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I think you're right... I believe he was workin on somethin........ I can think of a couple ways to mechanically control VGT's to keep two of them in sync....
 
Tormentor said:
Sorry, no, thats not how Holset's VGT turbos work.
The 3 wires are power, ground and CAN. The controller continually "talks" with the actuator; the controller sends a position command and the actuator responds with its measured position.
Its not possible to run two VGTs from one controller because of that.
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There are four... hence the four pin flat conector. They are Can High, Can Low, power, and ground. The controller "sees" the communications from the ECM "interprets" it and sends a CAN message to the turbo to make the adjustment. This means it doesnt matter if there are 12 turbos at the end of the line, they are all going to see the same message and adjust accordingly.

In an OE installation, you may be correct, but this is not OE.

Caleb
 
carpenca said:
There are four... hence the four pin flat conector. They are Can High, Can Low, power, and ground. The controller "sees" the communications from the ECM "interprets" it and sends a CAN message to the turbo to make the adjustment. This means it doesnt matter if there are 12 turbos at the end of the line, they are all going to see the same message and adjust accordingly.

In an OE installation, you may be correct, but this is not OE.

Caleb
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You're probably exactly right. The only thing I wonder is if the Fleece controller has bi-directional communication with the turbo actuator. If this is the case, then it would be limited to 1 turbo per fleece controller. But, since the fleece controller is 1 way communication with the ECM, you could theoretically have multiple fleece boxes, each controlling their own turbo.
 
deerefanatic said:
Well Tormentor, you obviously know more about the Fleece controller than Brayden Fleece himself.
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No, I simply know more about Holset's VGTs than you, because I fix them every day for a living.

JasonCzerak said:
Don't you all mean "listen", not talk? I don't think the ECU give a damn what the turbo has to say. LOL
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No, the actuator is its own computer. It does its own self-tests and diagnostics.

This means it doesnt matter if there are 12 turbos at the end of the line, they are all going to see the same message and adjust accordingly.
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That is false information.

deerefanatic said:
You're probably exactly right.
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Sorry, that is false.
 
Its not that complicated. Jumper the vgt computer. All you wanna do is send a pwm to the acuator. It just needs to know what positions to go to. Doesn't matter if it's one two or twelve. As long as the amperage is there for all of them it doesn't matter. This is not an OEM application.

Sent from my x2 somewhere
 
bad12jr said:
Its not that complicated. Jumper the vgt computer. All you wanna do is send a pwm to the acuator. It just needs to know what positions to go to. Doesn't matter if it's one two or twelve. As long as the amperage is there for all of them it doesn't matter. This is not an OEM application.

Sent from my x2 somewhere
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I believe from what I've studied, the motor in these actuators is not a stepper type motor... Might not be that easy....

Basically, the fleece controller communicates via a dedicated can-bus connection with the actuator on the turbo to tell the turbo the desired vane position. It cannot "home" or recalibrate the turbo however, which is why if you disconnect the actuator from the turbo, you've ruined it for use with the Fleece controller.... You basically have to attach it to a 6.7 truck to get the turbo to re-home.. At least that's what I've been told... Take it for what it's worth.

My vote is to go for a mechanical control system. If I were to do this, I use a pair of cables (think like parking brake cables) so you could use 1 mechanical actuator to operate both turbos...... Sorta like they do on multiple carb setups on snowmobiles, etc... Once you get the cables adjusted so both chargers are synced, then it will stay that way. Simple, and *should* work.

Or, if you've got a bunch of money to spend, get 2 fleece controllers, 1 for each turbo... Give Brayden a shout and see if that'd work. Don't see why it wouldn't.
 
I would rather tune them with a laptop ( lot easyer ), and i would think they would work with one contoler but im no expert on this chargers. I think the biggest problem would be pluming cool water for 3 charger's!
 
chevota84 said:
I think Carl (turbolvr) built a triple 351ve setup a while back.
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These?

0626101315a.jpg


They were a ROYAL pain to design and install. Fully mechanical operation. $.02
 
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