6.7 block variants

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farmkidd

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So please don't shoot me for my idea, constructive advice is appreciated. I have an '85 Chevy Cucv that I want to replace the ol Detroit 6.2 with a cummins. I have been seriously considering VE pumping a 5.9 24V or a 6.7. The 6.7's with engine history or that are New old stock are much easier to come by. I also to want to put an Allison 6sp behind it. This is a farm/ranch truck. Probably looking at max 300-350 hp. I need reliability, easy starting, idle manners, and low end torque. Im going mechanical as much as possible because bouncing around in pastures, cornfields and washboardy country roads and wires don't mix. So with all that in mind im looking for an industrial 6.7 w/ the SAE #3 already on the back end. SOOOO, my question for you guys is WHAT is the difference in the blocks on the 6.7's with the different CPL's? Ive found a 180hp from an RV w/ block#BB9160 but then Ive two other engines, one a 275 hp for a tractor, the other 160hp, but they both have the #9206-03? The numbers I gathered from the Cummins parts/tech website. Are there structural and strength differences between the two? Front of block bolt and dowel pin patterns? because some machining will need to be done to bolt the 12v VE gear case on. Thank you to all in advance.
 
All non-Dodge 6.7's are rear geartrain. Not sure how you would work that out with putting a mechanical pump on it.
 
Cnh aka case IH made a mechanical 6.7 12v for 4 years but it was iveco/cummins hybrid
 
Many of the rear gear 6.7's have a VE on them to start with. They were also normally 5.2 stroke rather than the Dodge 4.88.
 
9724VF350 said:
Many of the rear gear 6.7's have a VE on them to start with. They were also normally 5.2 stroke rather than the Dodge 4.88.
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Yeah...and they're great as long as Cummins washed all the casting sand out of the blocks....


I don't know why you would try and use one in a truck...structural block and oil pan, about twice the weight of a 5.9L....

Chris
 
I have one of those rear gear 5.2" stroke 12v with a VE engine sitting here. Like said above I don't think it would be ideal in a truck.
 
Signature600 said:
Yeah...and they're great as long as Cummins washed all the casting sand out of the blocks....
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LOL

I don't know why you would try and use one in a truck...structural block and oil pan, about twice the weight of a 5.9L....

Chris
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I've seen several engines that used a aluminum gear housing/sae housing on the back rather than the structural design we're used to seeing.
 
6.7 VE

Naw I get first dibbs since I'm the fool that wants to put a VE 6.7 into an old Chevy CUCV...LOL!!! Yes I know it probably doesnt make the most sense...but I just wanted the simplicity of all/mostly mechanical design. Speed is not at the forefront of my goals, thus weight is not much of an issue. Actually a little more weight is okay, it add a little ballast when the need arises of pulling a big load.
 
6.7 industrial VE

So the industrial 6.7 w/ the rear gear train cannot be converted to a front gear train? I had a short visit w/ the gentleman over at Keating Machine and he stated that his gearbox/ cover would fit and work on such block. Anyone have any true experience and insight??
 
farmkidd said:
So the industrial 6.7 w/ the rear gear train cannot be converted to a front gear train? I had a short visit w/ the gentleman over at Keating Machine and he stated that his gearbox/ cover would fit and work on such block. Anyone have any true experience and insight??
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Keating does P-7100 cases for the Dodge, FRONT gear train version.

You DO realize that if it's a rear gear with a CP3, the blocks are the same as a Dodge front gear version, correct?
The cranks are a whole different game, though.

I'm looking at a 60,000 mile 6.7 QSB from a 2014 F-750 FORD that was wrecked and it's every bit the same block.
I've had 2 prior to this.

A drill, a set of metric bits, metric taps, some patience and a bit of know how and you can put a P-7100 timing case on a Common Rail 6.7 or 5.9.
Or a VE, if that's what you prefer. :D

Mark.
 
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farmkidd said:
So the industrial 6.7 w/ the rear gear train cannot be converted to a front gear train? I had a short visit w/ the gentleman over at Keating Machine and he stated that his gearbox/ cover would fit and work on such block. Anyone have any true experience and insight??
Click to expand...


:umno:

You would need a whole block to convert them. They just are not useful in a pickup. If you think doubling the weight of an engine "to add ballast" when towing is useful, you have a lot to learn bud.

If your truck squats that bad pulling a load, you either need to learn to load a trailer, or more truck...because I can gross 48K lbs with my truck and 35' trailer and not squat the truck...


These rear gear train engines were built to be THE FRAME of a tractor...I think the oil pan alone weighs 450lbs. The oil pump is made into the front cover, as that is all that is on the front of the engine, other than the dampener pulley. Cam drives from the back, as does the pump, and the crank has been lengthened at the back to accommodate everything else back there. They were built for tractors and industrial machinery as a whole different design...the structural block and rear geartrain allows tractors to turn tighter, and I would venture to say it makes things much easier to package in industrial machinery.


Mark, I haven't seen a CR version as we never used them...but the AG version of the B6.7L VE is most definitely not the same block with a different crank thrown in it. The block is cast much differently.

Chris
 
I know they are a totally different animal, just never looked at one.
This is mainly because I don't get around a lot of ag equipment to be near one.

Easy on the new guys, sometimes they do come up with some interesting ideas. :)

Mark.
 
Alot to learn?

Please don't insult my intelligence.....but if you must go there....anyone who uses an AGCO insignia as their avatar has a lot to learn, for G-d's sake they aren't even American owned anymore, and secondly why in the 'ell would you let a Frenchman design the friggin' engines your putting in all your equipment. As far as loading a trailer, Son I've hauled more tons of corn and beef in my short little life than you WILL EVER SEE. So don't tell me how to load a trailer or if I do or don't need more ballast. I've never been in a situation where I had too much power, but I have needed more ballast and traction to match that horsepower. As far as the industrial engines you're refering to...No that is not what I was looking at. AGCO isn't the only company that uses the block/engine/pan as the frame on their ag tractors. I won't reveal what color of paint I bleed. But I know exactly what you are refering to. And my appreciation goes out to Mr. Nixon. He is very helpful and always a gentleman. Thank you again.
 
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Mark Nixon said:
Keating does P-7100 cases for the Dodge, FRONT gear train version.

You DO realize that if it's a rear gear with a CP3, the blocks are the same as a Dodge front gear version, correct?
The cranks are a whole different game, though.

I'm looking at a 60,000 mile 6.7 QSB from a 2014 F-750 FORD that was wrecked and it's every bit the same block.
I've had 2 prior to this.

A drill, a set of metric bits, metric taps, some patience and a bit of know how and you can put a P-7100 timing case on a Common Rail 6.7 or 5.9.
Or a VE, if that's what you prefer. :D

Mark.
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The rear gears I have seen have all sorts of oil galleys on the back(some that are large enough a pipe plug won't fill them) I suppose you could make a cover to go over them.
 
farmkidd said:
Please don't insult my intelligence.....but if you must go there....anyone who uses an AGCO insignia as their avatar has a lot to learn, for G-d's sake they aren't even American owned anymore, and secondly why in the 'ell would you let a Frenchman design the friggin' engines your putting in all your equipment. As far as loading a trailer, Son I've hauled more tons of corn and beef in my short little life than you WILL EVER SEE. So don't tell me how to load a trailer or if I do or don't need more ballast. I've never been in a situation where I had too much power, but I have needed more ballast and traction to match that horsepower. As far as the industrial engines you're refering to...No that is not what I was looking at. AGCO isn't the only company that uses the block/engine/pan as the frame on their ag tractors. I won't reveal what color of paint I bleed. But I know exactly what you are refering to. And my appreciation goes out to Mr. Nixon. He is very helpful and always a gentleman. Thank you again.
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You sir are a douche and are going to learn the hard way it's not a good idea to get your dick out like that on here or it's gonna get smacked.
 
zstroken said:
The rear gears I have seen have all sorts of oil galleys on the back(some that are large enough a pipe plug won't fill them) I suppose you could make a cover to go over them.
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That has not been my experience on them.
There are a couple of plugs that aren't there, but nothing that was huge or needed anything fancy to get them plugged up to work in a Dodge application.
This is the case with both 5.9 and 6.7 rear gears and they even share casting numbers between their respective displacements.
That is, a 5.9 rear gear can have the same casting number as a front gear.

Mark.
 
jfaulkner said:
You sir are a douche and are going to learn the hard way it's not a good idea to get your dick out like that on here or it's gonna get smacked.
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Watch out, the TOP douche hunter is looking for a fresh rag! :hehe:

Mark.
 
Mark Nixon said:
That has not been my experience on them.
There are a couple of plugs that aren't there, but nothing that was huge or needed anything fancy to get them plugged up to work in a Dodge application.
This is the case with both 5.9 and 6.7 rear gears and they even share casting numbers between their respective displacements.
That is, a 5.9 rear gear can have the same casting number as a front gear.

Mark.
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This was from a Fed ex truck. Casting looked the same, and pistons,rods, and injectors were the same. Just had a large hole on the back ror oil.
 
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