Bio Diesel

justacummins

justacummins

Certified Ford Diesel Tec
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
443
hey guys i was driving past a gas station the other day and noticed they carried bio diesel and i've thought about running this stuff before just never found a station near me that carried it. Does anyone know the advantages/disadvantages of running bio diesel vs. regular diesel. Or do you have to do any special mods to run the bio diesel also. Thanks
 
no mods it will usually make it smoke less has better lube properties and will quiet the injectors a bit i've made my own for years run it 100% and mixed in any % known in higher % you need to becareful it doesn't jell because it will at higher temp than #2 will but pump bio is fine it usually is no more than 10% and it winterized and it smells a little better HTHs
 
Thanks for the feedback jestersv can #2 and bio diesel be mixed or do i gotta wait till the tank im mostly empty? and what about adatives can they still be added in the winter to help with jelling or will the brake the bio diesel down?
 
Most available commercial grades are B20. You can pump it right into your tank without any issues. If you run a half decent fuel additive they all support B20 and treat it just like a tank of normal diesel. Additives for bio diesel are not readily available to end consumers. They are used on the blending level as they are mostly depending upon what feedstock the fuel was made from. There is wayyyyy more to it then what I'm telling you, however for your concerns you can treat the bio your buying as normal diesel. At 20% there is hardly no difference in the performance of your truck or an effect from the bio diesel. Quieting of the engine may occur, as stated above. You may get a slight cleaning effect as bio is a good solvent, but its wont be extremely noticeable.
 
I'm in Illinois, aparantly the state mandates or at least gives some sort or tax break for Bio blends. About 6 moths ago all the stations in my town went to Bio. A small sticker is on all the pumps now saying that the fuel may contain Bio. I have asked at the stations about the percentage B5, B10, B20 no one knows anything (typical). I did notice a slight drop in mpg (droped 1 mpg). Their was an article, I think put out by F.S., that said the "blend" was controled by the guy driving the delivery truck. Independant testing discovered that the "blend" contained as little as 2% and as much as 80% bio. These same drivers are reportedly also responsable for lubrication additives (although I have also read that the additive is added at the refinery). I belive it was Diesel power mag (or one of the other diesel mags) did some testing on diesel and found that the cetane level was on the very low end of what is required by law. Something about the extra refining process required to get the fuel down to the 15ppm. I'm no expert, but I can tell you that no one at any gas station is doing any testing to assure quality. I run an additive in every tank, I think it is the only way to ensure your fuel sytem is getting the lubrication it needs. You can easily see why the manufactures are reluctant to aprove bio fuels. Sorry to ramble on so long. :blahblah1:
 
Well I can assure you that I doubt a truck driver is doing the blending. Most places that have a small percentage(B5 usually or slightly lower) have it as a state mandated thing. We have a 10% phase in occurring in PA that's supposed to take effect by 2012. The tax credits you speak of are from the federal government and have strict stipulations. Some joe nobody can't just start throwing biodiesel together and blending it with diesel to get the tax break... so as I said.... I highly doubt that a truck driver is doing the blending. The fuel comes preblended from someplace. The problem is that biodiesel will begin to settle out over time if the fueling station does not properly care for the fuel, so you could get more bio than the set percentages, however even at the B20 level it would not be that significant. Lubrication additives are added by refineries and I assume your referring to regular diesel as there are no lubrication additives required of biodiesel as the fuel itself is better than most aftermarket treatments(hence why they use the fuel on the 2-5% level as an additive).
 
Yes this is true, the terminals add various add packs to the fuel depending upon its final destination. IE the fuel your buying maybe from a BP Oil, but it has Chevon/Shell/Whoevers addatives in it. Diesel fuel is Diesel fuel, and what makes it unique is whoevers add packs end up in it.
 
Spectre32 you saying that additives are not nessasary? They gain me back about 1 mpg. The article I refer to (I cannot remember exactly where I saw it) was from a legit source. My point being how does the average joe know what he is getting? Additives are cheap compared to CP3's, injectors, and burnt pistons.
 
The average Joe will be fine. We in the know add our own stuff for better economy. Like i add 1oz of 2 stroke to a gallon.
 
dieselduck said:
Spectre32 you saying that additives are not nessasary? They gain me back about 1 mpg. The article I refer to (I cannot remember exactly where I saw it) was from a legit source. My point being how does the average joe know what he is getting? Additives are cheap compared to CP3's, injectors, and burnt pistons.
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Additives strictly for bio diesel are what I was referring to. Additives for Diesel is a wise move as I also net better MPG and get better lubrication.
 
Bio may be getting the blame for ULSD. The recent Minnesota reversal on B5 with #1 is evidence that ulsd has issues as well. VERY water hungry and now the effects of the antioxidant qualities of sulfur being removed are beginning to show up. Look for quality stations with high turnover and if you are going to treat yourself ( since you will not know what the station has added) do NOT overtreat.
 
Salesrep said:
Bio may be getting the blame for ULSD. The recent Minnesota reversal on B5 with #1 is evidence that ulsd has issues as well. VERY water hungry and now the effects of the antioxidant qualities of sulfur being removed are beginning to show up. Look for quality stations with high turnover and if you are going to treat yourself ( since you will not know what the station has added) do NOT overtreat.
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If you read the bottle of additives it says to use twice the amount for Bio. I don't know if that is for 100% Bio or just a blend. All the additives say no damage from overtreatment??? You saying I can hurt my inj system by using too much additive? I mix it to the Bio level (twice as much) is this a problem?

Once again how do you know what you are realy getting? :what:
 
Pre ulsd and bio the "rule" was triple treat was the limit. Post ulsd bio too much can cause a separation or reaction depending on what is in the tank, the underground tank, the last batch etc.
The label says" Double treat" for bio. Does that pertain to cfpp,gelling, double treat for what? with bio?
Again lot of variables with bio and ulsd. Lot of different kinds of bio for that matter.
In Minnesota for example the B5 mandate was lifted because of the effect of cfpp with #1 blending with b5 with #2. While there are fuel jobbers that run b11 all year round.
Double treating will be fine for your system...Difficult to recommend treat rate for anti-gelling, but I would regular treat given the fact that the fuel you are getting from the pump has some treatments in it...for ant-gel. Same for the Southerners...regular rate.
 
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Salesrep said:
Pre ulsd and bio the "rule" was triple treat was the limit. Post ulsd bio too much can cause a separation or reaction depending on what is in the tank, the underground tank, the last batch etc.
The label says" Double treat" for bio. Does that pertain to cfpp,gelling, double treat for what? with bio?
Again lot of variables with bio and ulsd. Lot of different kinds of bio for that matter.
In Minnesota for example the B5 mandate was lifted because of the effect of cfpp with #1 blending with b5 with #2. While there are fuel jobbers that run b11 all year round.
Double treating will be fine for your system...Difficult to recommend treat rate for anti-gelling, but I would regular treat given the fact that the fuel you are getting from the pump has some treatments in it...for ant-gel. Same for the Southerners...regular rate.
Click to expand...

Salerep

I doubletreat in the winter for gelling, guess I should have specified that. I did not know that "overtreatment" was a concern. I know 2 people localy that run the "winter blend" from a high volume station that have experianced gelling. They now use additives. Thanks for the info, I will back off the double treatment.

I feel privlaged that you chose to post your first reply to my questions! :bow:
Were you just holding out for a fellow Illinoian? :hehe:
 
Biodiesel feedstock’s are what can dictate the general quality of the fuel. Soybean is what we use and there are additives out there for it, but I have yet to see any that are reasonably priced and perform a half decent job.
 
Seriously, and I do not mean to come across as a Smart A__, and I am not a site sponsor and certainly to not want to over step my boundaries, but our additives have proven to perform stupendously with today's soy bio diesel.
 
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