safe timing numbers? any timing calculators?

H

hpi_jeep

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wondering what is safe. looks like i see 29* in stock timing param's. i only seen these numbers at low throttle position and low in the powerband. when i get aggressive with the throttle the timing drops to around 13*-16*.
I did up it a bit to where i am seeing around 28 at WOT higher rpm ranges and it helped cool egt's a huge amount. with this change in timing smoke is almost 0.
are there any timing calculators avail?
 
You will see as much as 52 degrees is you examine some of the box tuners, but I don't think the timing numbers we are seeing are exactly right. They all seem to be about 20 degrees biased.
 
Cody is right, we do believe there is some sort of bias on some of the timing tables. The discussions we've had indicate that it is around 20 degrees.

We won't make changes to the software until we can prove it, and to do so we need one of our testers to put a scope on the injector and measure it.

Cheers
Cindy
 
I have my max timing set at 35* as set by tables and verified by scantool.

Works well for me, and still WAY less than I was running with my Smarty.

~Les
 
problems with the license

is anybody having problems getting there v2 to license properly? i hooked up the v2 scanned my stock tune, modified it and went to scan it back in and it keeps saying it is not licensed, but my verification shows i have 2 to use.
 
Please confirm your software and firmware versions.

In the last update (June 6) if you have a mismatch of software and firmware you won't be able to recognise your licenses.

The current versions are:

V7.5.7 Build 165 (June 08, 2011)
V8.2.1 Build 156 (June 08, 2011)
FlashScan/AutoCal Firmware V2.07.12 (Jun 06, 2011)

Cheers
Cindy
 
BlowinTwins said:
is anybody having problems getting there v2 to license properly? i hooked up the v2 scanned my stock tune, modified it and went to scan it back in and it keeps saying it is not licensed, but my verification shows i have 2 to use.
Click to expand...

you have to lock the controler(v2) to the ecm.
if it says you have 2 to use that means you havent "spent the lisence"
when you select Full Flash there should be something that says "lisence ecm" then it asks you a couple times if you are sure.
 
so this is saying that when we see 45* of timing on our log its truly around 25 correct? What kinda #s are you guys running for timing on modded trucks? Im set a 45* right now max.
 
I have got some files that will get up to about 48 degrees on the big end. Most of the time though around 40.
 
the actual values in the cell are around 48, so I think that would be a little closer to 28 in reality.
 
Ok, thanks. Im suprised there isnt alot of ? being asked in this forum.. but then again I dont really think alot of people are still running efi... maybe scared??
 
I am not scared to run it and I have it just happen to have a bad engine at the time. I love hearing this stuff and wish more would talk about there tunes and what effects what the most. Feel free to send me anything that is working for you so maybe I can make heads or tales of it compared to a stock tune or the ones I have pulled from my ecm after I loaded my Smarty to the setings I like to run most and compare it all.
 
I think a lot of people are staying quiet about what they are doing. We are working with our test group and have made some good progress, but I am not ready to share any details yet. Hopefully I am going to get a couple of our trucks on the dyno this weekend and see what kind of numbers we are putting down.
 
phale said:
I think a lot of people are staying quiet about what they are doing. We are working with our test group and have made some good progress, but I am not ready to share any details yet. Hopefully I am going to get a couple of our trucks on the dyno this weekend and see what kind of numbers we are putting down.
Click to expand...

I c.. I understand. I just figured there would be more ?s...but alot of tuners were duramax tuners, so they already know a lot.. I'm fresh into this just eager to learn. Thanks
 
So is it like guessing game with timing numbers? Same problem with GM ecm? Thought the guessing game was over when we sold are smartys.
 
ComnRailPwr said:
So is it like guessing game with timing numbers? Same problem with GM ecm? Thought the guessing game was over when we sold are smartys.
Click to expand...

With the GM ECM we've had 5 years to fine tune our offering and get it right - and that's not to say our software is perfect or covers everything; it's simply doesn't. But what it does do is provide the most accurate product available at a reasonable cost. Real world product usage and feedback is the only way to fine tune our product. Which is why in the first 12 months of our initial Duramax release we doubled the number of parameters available. We expect to do the same with Cummins.

For Cummins, we don't have 5 years of real world testing behind us and haven't perfected everything. We have had 3 and a half weeks. In that time we've released 3 new updates to enhance our product, enhance the tunes our customers can make, and fix some identified issues.

The particular issue of timing bias numbers is on our priority list. We are displaying the raw numbers reported by the ECM for that particular table, however until *someone* (either a beta tester or a customer) can demonstrate 100% what the bias number is, 20* is only a guess. We won't change our software based on a guess - we need hard evidence to support it.

Cheers
Cindy
 
The particular issue of timing bias numbers is on our priority list. We are displaying the raw numbers reported by the ECM for that particular table, however until *someone* (either a beta tester or a customer) can demonstrate 100% what the bias number is, 20* is only a guess. We won't change our software based on a guess - we need hard evidence to support it.
Click to expand...

What exactly are you referring to when you say "bias"? Is this the delay between commanded start-of-injection (SOI) and the actual SOI?

--Eric
 
Eric, we have seen in the ECM code there is a value of 20° subtracted from the timing values. However, it's not something that appears to be always used, in other words it runs a few checks before it's applied (not sure what they are though).
So where we are at is everyone agrees the numbers you see in the tables are really high, if you take the 20° bias off the values they appear more sane and probably represent the final timing the engine would see.
But until this is proven 100% we have decided to display the timing table values at the exact values they calculate out to.
The only real way to prove it would be to scope the injector pulse vs TDC, but not having a Cummins here in the office makes that a little hard for us.
It would be easy for us to put a negative 20° figure on everything in a future release.
As to why this 20° bias exists in the first place, I have no idea.
 
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