Tranny Guys, Get me up to speed on current building trends.

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kawgomoo

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Ive been lurking for a while, trying to be ready for this day. Well its here, my tranny finally gave up the ghost. Yet, i don't fell 100% confident on what parts and pieces to buy, which brands are good, which are junk.

Can experienced tranny builders chime in on this one. I am going to be doing this DIY style, and it will be my first automatic trans rebuild.

Ive got plenty of tools, lathe, mill etc so i figure i can make any special tools, spring compressor for the OD etc.

Ive seen mention of SONNAX valves being more likely to stick, various opinions on clutch material, clutch count, lever ratios.

My mind is spinning, can anyone make this all make sense?

My truck is an 89 ram charger with a 12v and 47re swapped in. The motor is mostly stock with some injectors and bolt ons. Its a daily driver, but also a toy. I do have a dually to drive when this thing goes down.

That being said, i would like to plan this transmission to have good hard parts to keep up with future plans. I would eventually like to make in the 500-600hp range. I don't think ill ever get serious enough to go much higher, i still want it to be drivable and towable. Just have enough ass to shut up kids and their crap cars.

My truck will still move, even do a burnout. But the trans take a long time to build any pressure, and is puking fluid out of the bell housing. Ive yet to take it out, but i guess i either lost the front pump or broke a weld on the converter. {it has a mean shudder when locked in OD}

So whats the list for a bad ass DIY trans build? What are the absolute avoids?

Greatly appreciated!!
 
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I'd read through BigBlues thread if you want to see some good cheap upgrades. Other than that, I'd get a triple disc converter from Phil at DPC and the clutch kit is all preference. I have a DTT kit in one of my trucks and another with Raybestos GPZ frictions. Both have added clutches in the direct pack and OD brakes. I would recommend something around a 4.2 lever to avoid the 2nd gear band dragging upon release when the directs are engaging as tends to happen with the 5.0 levers since the servo has to stroke further to release the band. Also a billet input is cheap insurance from having to pull the trans again in the future and possibly having to replace or rebuild the converter due to a snapped shaft.
 
Thanks stubz, I've been reading over Blues threads a lot lately. I noticed Lavon chimed in a few times here and their.

From what I've been reading it seems a 4.2 lever, good converter and stock clutches are the general recommendation.

How are you adding the additional clutches? I don't really like the idea of running thinner steels, though i understand their are tricks to getting an additional set of clutches in their.

I also have a 48re that a neighbor gave me, i have no clue of its condition. He said it was a running driving trans he kept as a spare, but the pan looks like it was removed and not resealed {water? but this is az}

So the question is, do i rebuild my 47re, or the 48re, or make a hybrid of the two?
 
48re have much better hard parts and will swap right in the 47re case. It have better pump and planetaries. If you do that, make sure you buy 48re soft parts as it have different spline count for the clutch.

Triple disk billet converter, and billet input shaft are a must.

Reputable built or DIY kit is highly recommended, it's the heart of the trans. My suggest related to clutch count, 2nd gear assorted parts and such should be determined by how you'll have the valve body done because clutch count and 2nd gear set up should be configured to match the valve body setting because for example, if you have a valve body made for stock clutch count but the trans have increased clutch count then it'll shift fairly firm and hard, if that make sense.
 
TrailTamer said:
48re have much better hard parts and will swap right in the 47re case. It have better pump and planetaries. If you do that, make sure you buy 48re soft parts as it have different spline count for the clutch.

Triple disk billet converter, and billet input shaft are a must.

Reputable built or DIY kit is highly recommended, it's the heart of the trans. My suggest related to clutch count, 2nd gear assorted parts and such should be determined by how you'll have the valve body done because clutch count and 2nd gear set up should be configured to match the valve body setting because for example, if you have a valve body made for stock clutch count but the trans have increased clutch count then it'll shift fairly firm and hard, if that make sense.
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Larger tolerances consume more time during clutch application, lower tolerance require less time.
 
Firepunk has a good complete kit. I've used it before. I typically piece my own kits together but for a first timer the complete kit is pretty nice. Everything they sell will work well together for a good Trans if set up correctly.

Make sure your Trans has a steel front planet, besides that the 47re parts will hold 600 no problem.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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biggy238 said:
Larger tolerances consume more time during clutch application, lower tolerance require less time.
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Not only that, the more clutch count, the less pressure needed to not slip, which it'll fully engaged/no slip faster than the less clutch count pack will.

The most neck snapping shift configuration will be as many clutches as can fit in the pack, tightest tolerance, maximum line pressure, zero orifices. The trans and other drivetrain parts will be VERY unhappy with the huge driveline shocks when shifting.

I read a ton on modding the 47re and I did came across this one big thread about Garmon transmission having problem eating billet input shafts. Simply put, the biggest, baddest input shaft (and other things too) will not hold up if the trans is not shifting correctly via shift timing, such as 1-2 gear shift, the clutch pack will need to release in time with 2nd gear band gear engaging to not binds or rpm flaring.

I recommend Goerend for trans parts. They're impressive. I visited their facility.
 
TrailTamer said:
Not only that, the more clutch count, the less pressure needed to not slip, which it'll fully engaged/no slip faster than the less clutch count pack will.

The most neck snapping shift configuration will be as many clutches as can fit in the pack, tightest tolerance, maximum line pressure, zero orifices. The trans and other drivetrain parts will be VERY unhappy with the huge driveline shocks when shifting.

I read a ton on modding the 47re and I did came across this one big thread about Garmon transmission having problem eating billet input shafts. Simply put, the biggest, baddest input shaft (and other things too) will not hold up if the trans is not shifting correctly via shift timing, such as 1-2 gear shift, the clutch pack will need to release in time with 2nd gear band gear engaging to not binds or rpm flaring.

I recommend Goerend for trans parts. They're impressive. I visited their facility.
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This is true but I thought it was beyond the scope of this thread
 
TrailTamer said:
I read a ton on modding the 47re and I did came across this one big thread about Garmon transmission having problem eating billet input shafts. Simply put, the biggest, baddest input shaft (and other things too) will not hold up if the trans is not shifting correctly via shift timing, such as 1-2 gear shift, the clutch pack will need to release in time with 2nd gear band gear engaging to not binds or rpm flaring.
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You are correct in your theory, but there will never be a bindup on the 1-2 shift in a 47/48re. You are simply applying the front band in order to get 2nd gear. The 2-3 shift is one that needs timed well because it is releasing the front band and applying the front/direct clutch pack. Typically where you will see a flare or bindup.

That's why it's usually a good idea to use parts and clearance recomendations from 1 dealer/brand of Trans parts. Can save you some troubles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Exactly, that's what I'm trying to say. Buy the key parts from one transmission builder, like the built valve body or DIY valve body shift kit, 2nd gear parts, accumulator and the rebuild kit. I don't think the torque converter is as important but chances are you will buy one from the same vendor on the other stuff anyway.

Sorry if I derail this a bit, but yeah, what I was trying to say, buy the matching set up for minminal headaches.
 
And here i was thinking nobody replied because i didnt get a notification in my email.

My original plan, as of a few years back when i dropped this motor in my truck was to have DTT build the trans. But as time goes on, i figured i might as well do it myself using all DTT parts. More time goes by, I've read more and heard of other companies. My biggest problem is, I'm a race car guy by trade. I know all too well of the "boutique" shops with amazingly high prices and turn out crap work. Not to say DTT is bad, or one of "those guys" but I'm feeling you won't get the best bang for the buck buying that brand.

I see a lot of stuff about Firepunk these days. Now, of course i can't afford one of his complete trannies. 6 to 8k is 3x what i have in the entire truck. That just aint gonna happen. The other thing that caught me by surprise was seeing that Lavon posted in a thread that he runs trannies with valve bodies set up by Tim Barber, who used to be my neighbor back when i lived in Virginia.

All in all, i assume the "magic" is all in valve body setup and clutch pack clearances.

Most of the feedback i get is "set up the valve body and clutches to make it live". So i guess that is my real question.

Inserting hard parts, cleaning stuff, following a service manual. All not hard. What are the steps that i won't find in the manual? What are those magic clearances? What tools will i need to get the transmission dialed into where i want it.

Im not even totally sure a triple disc is the way to go for me. I know, i know. But my truck doesn't make that much power now, and DPC will upgrade me from single to triple within a year.

So I'm kind of thinking, buy the complete fire punk kit. Put a DPC single disc converter in it. Drive it around and measure my results over the next few months. If my rebuild turns out to be a success i can pull the tranny freshen it up, order the triple disc converter and any billet parts i skimped out on in the first place. Take the extra money I saved from doing the trans myself and install a set of twins.

Its not a drag truck and don't need the "ultimate" bad ass trans. Just something solid and reliable that will handle my generally abusive attitude towards vehicle in general.
 
kawgomoo said:
The other thing that caught me by surprise was seeing that Lavon posted in a thread that he runs trannies with valve bodies set up by Tim Barber, who used to be my neighbor back when i lived in Virginia.
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While that formerly was true when they were getting started, Firepunk now builds everything in-house.

The ATSG 47/48RE rebuild manual has all clearances needed to properly rebuild your transmission. The PDF can be purchased on the ATSG website.
 
Thanks everyone, and ghost man i will be reading through your thread. I worked something out with Tim Barber. Going to be running his parts and "specs", let him do the valve body and I'm going to attempt to screw the rest of it all by myself.

Will let you know how it turns out!
 
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